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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to tell ExH where to go? (Summer Holiday related)

79 replies

MyHolidayYourHoliday · 04/04/2018 11:53

Name change for this.

ExH and I split when DD was 3, due to DV from him towards me. She's now 6 nearly 7. He pays less than legal minimum maintenance and I've never asked for more in 3 years since we split despite knowing his income has increased but his outgoings haven't (lives with his parents who can afford for him to work minimum/not pay them). I accommodate his requests and last minute changes without complaint, he has 1 overnight every fortnight (4pm Saturday - 4pm Sunday) but he often changes it due to work, I pay/arrange childcare if I'm working or just keep with me if not. I never ever moan. I share Christmas and her birthday despite him only having her for the 1 overnight a fortnight. He never has her more even in school holidays apart from taking her away for 10 days a year.

Since DD started school the arrangement has always been that in June half term I take her away. ExH always has her either the weekend before or after depending on how I book. Her birthday is after half term so I ensure we're back for him to see her on her birthday. I then allow him to take her away for any other week of the year, even in school term time - he's taken her out of school for a holiday every year since she started, I've never complained or taken away permission.

This year for the first time ever I've saved for us to go abroad. I cannot wait. I haven't been abroad in over 15 years, and DD has never been. All her school friends have been too Greece or Turkey or France or somewhere else, and she never has. I haven't told her yet, but I know she's going to be super excited. I am just as excited about telling her as she will be about going. It's all paid for. My DM and DBro are also coming with us so that I have a babysitter for a couple of nights if I want to go out or away from the room while DD sleeps (I probably won't - kindle and wine on the balcony for me - but the option is there if I want it)

Knowing it would be her first holiday abroad, I extended the invite to ExH and/or his parents if they paid for themselves. I've given the details of hotel and the dates we're going. DDs school has a teacher training day on the Monday after half term so we're going Monday - Monday with the plan being ExH has her for the weekend before we go. ExH said he didn't want to come and would see her the weekend before.

He has now emailed me to say he doesn't give me permission to take DD out of the country . He's saying he wants to take her on her first "proper" holiday but he wants to wait until she's a bit older to understand it.

I am raging. It's less than 8 weeks to half term now. I was going to tell DD when she gets back from holiday club tonight (currently on my lunch break).

AIBU to tell him I'm taking her anyway? I've paid for her passport, will be buying all her holiday clothes, have arranged a sitter for our cats (and my mums as well). All I want is one week a year where I don't have to consider him. I don't think it's too much to ask.

If he takes me to court will the judge let me take her anyway?

OP posts:

Firesuit · 04/04/2018 12:34

I missed the bit that says you don't need permission for up to 28 days if you have a "child arrangement order."

bertielab · 04/04/2018 12:35

Ps I said take her on the basis you have residency ? Otherwise it is child abduction -you can try to get his parents on board?

You can take a child abroad for 28 days without getting permission if a child arrangement order says the child must live with you, unless a court order says you can’t.

My court order says I can take the children whenever I like. His must be agreed with me.

keelyt90 · 04/04/2018 12:36

You don't need permission to take her out of the country unless it is longer than 30 days. My ex tried this and at the bottom of the court order it states this phrase. I wouldn't worry.... Even if he does apply for an urgent hearing he would have to submit evidence and give sufficient reasons as to why you couldn't take her. Judges see through people like that and would grant the holiday anyway. I have recently been through the courts over the last 18 months and judges are very keen for children to have fond holiday memories.
Legally as you are the primary caregiver you can take your child wherever you like without permission from the other parent with responsibility up to a maximum of 30 days. Anything over 30 days would need his permission.

bertielab · 04/04/2018 12:39

Check your court order carefully -it normally says at the top. The child resides with............. or lives with...........

It sounds like you have court order?

ElsieMc · 04/04/2018 12:42

The Court will definitely give you permission op but it shouldn't get that far I hope. My gs's dad got permission when he actually took over my holiday time and booked a holiday in that period without even telling me. I refused because he should have spoken to me and the judge gave him it!

However, he asked for a number of other things and the Judge told him to basically go away and never darken his court again and that he was sick of him. Made me fume and sent out the wrong message because I would never have objected if he had taken it in his own time. But it formed a view in court of his opportunistic nature and every request since has been denied.

Get him told op. No court would deny your dd this opportunity.

spacecadet48 · 04/04/2018 12:45

www.gov.uk/permission-take-child-abroad

Go to a solicitor right away. I feel for you, my OH tried this many years ago. he was abusive too and used anything to still control me from afar. Take your DC on holiday!

bastardkitty · 04/04/2018 12:46

You can take a child for up to 28 days without needing permission if you have a Residence Order but not on the basis that you are the resident parent.

Springnowplease · 04/04/2018 12:49

Tell him you will take it to coourt and permission will be granted. And you will also be asking the court for proper maintenance.

Original poster

MyHolidayYourHoliday · 04/04/2018 12:50

Will reply quickly before I have to get back to work.

No court order for either residency or maintenance, will definitely look into it if I think he will try and take me to court. Will be ringing my solicitor this afternoon when I've finished work.

I assumed permission when I offered him the option to come, when he said he'd see her the weekend before we go I thought he was ok with it. I'd give him permission to go abroad with her if he wanted, even if it was before my holiday.

OP posts:

Figgygal · 04/04/2018 12:58

I'd let him know that you are prepared to go to court to get RP and the right to take her away, OP.

Let him know that IF you have to do that, you will be raising the question of maintenance, and a proper court-agreed access/contact agreement. That you will stick to, to the letter (no more adjustments, weekends are set-in-stone etc)

From upthread completely agree with this what an utter wanker!! why should he get to take her first? It is isn't a fucking contest

DistanceCall · 04/04/2018 12:59

This man hit you. Stop being nice to him, for your own sake and for your daughter's.

Everything done by the book from now one. Let's see how he likes it.

Dancer123456 · 04/04/2018 13:05

You are still scared of him. You agree to his every whim without complaint and don't challenge him on anything. He does as he pleases regardless of how it affects you or his daughter.

He's still being abusive and only you can make it stop.

The games will never end and will only get worse.

You have to decide whether enough is enough.

If I were in your shoes I would tell him that you are applying to the court for permission, and do it.

Ask for contact to be formally agreed and go to the CMS for maintenance.

You are not his puppet and he had no right to dictate to you and mess you about all the time.

But you have to decide if you have the strength to fight him x

Lacucuracha · 04/04/2018 13:53

Do you have the discussion regarding holiday (and him seeing her the weekend before) on text?

Not that I think it would come to proving it.

He's probably testing his power over you.

Why not claim the extra CMS and save it for your DD?

lalalalyra · 04/04/2018 14:04

No court order for either residency or maintenance, will definitely look into it if I think he will try and take me to court

You won't know he's going to take you to court until days before you go, and by then it'll probably be too late to go.

He's made very clear his wishes are the most important thing to him. His text says it all - he wants to take her for her first proper holiday. Not "I think she's too young", not "I think you won't bring her back". It's about him.

Please don't underestimate this man. It's not expensive for him to go to court and if you don't know it's going to happen he could still fuck up your holiday even if he loses (a friend of mine's ex put in an emergency order on a Friday - scuppered her holiday on the Sunday, but he didn't even turn up Monday. By then she was massively out of pocket as she had to organise new flights...).

Takfujuimoto · 04/04/2018 14:08

Don't tell him anything, talk to your Solicitor and move for RP/court order and put a claim in for CM.
Leave him on the Back foot for once.
Let him get the unexpected letter through the post showing him he doesn't call all the shots anymore.

If you leave this he could and would probably love to cause trouble in the few days before you're due to leave and he would have ruined the holiday completely.

SweetIcedTea · 04/04/2018 14:19

You need to see a solicitor, and make a court application quickly, it's not worth the risk to go without legal backing, I've never been asked for any evidence of permission when we've travelled abroad but I take it anyway, imagine being prevented from boarding the plane, the whole cost of the holiday wasted and then legal costs to resolve the problem afterwards, even possible arrest. Dramatic but possible with a vindictive ex,

Personally I get a letter signed by my ex well in advance of any holidays in case of any nonsense, I would be straight in front of a judge if he refused to sign it, there's no way he'd be telling where and when I could take my child on holiday.

allthegoodnameshadgone · 04/04/2018 14:26

For the child residency order, would the op need to apply for one everytime she wanted to go abroad?

If her ex does relent and agree to them going, it says on love be she will need a letter from him saying he can take the Dad abroad. Why if he changes his mind afterwards - could she be charged with abduction?

Asking with interest

swingofthings · 04/04/2018 14:37

It is true that in essence, he might need to give permission but in practice, it rarely happens. He could go to court and request that your DD doesn't leave the country, but he would have to give a decent reason for it to be granted and 'because I want to be the first one to take her abroad' won't achieve this. After all, you could then do exactly the same and refuse for him to take her.

Does she have yours or his name? Where are you going? I've taken my kids abroad at least once every year since they were babies without their dad and not once have I been asked if I had permission from him even though they have his surname (and so different to mine). Not that it mattered in my case as he never had parental responsibility.

Go and enjoy your holiday and don't rise to his pettiness.

KC225 · 04/04/2018 14:37

How spiteful. You are a bloody saint for putting with a quarter of what you have listed. Clearly you DD is first in your thoughts. He is a jealous idiot. You are well rid.

There is sonengood advice above. I just want to wish you, your DD and your family a wonderful holiday.

mishfish · 04/04/2018 14:42

Enough of being nice, he’s not nice so I wouldn’t bother with him.

I think you need to go to the CMS to receive proper maintenance. He should be paying for his child.

I think you shouldn’t wait for him to take you to court for permission for the holiday either. You need written permission from him and he has specifically not given it, so don’t make any assumptions and look to get permissions from the court right away. If you have in writing/ text his reasons for denying permission then great and it shows he is being petty rather than for any particular concern. You’ll most likely be granted permission but please do it for the peace of mind.

Can you imagine missing your flight as you’re in court last minute?!!

GeekyWombat · 04/04/2018 14:45

I'd let him know that you are prepared to go to court to get RP and the right to take her away, OP.

See if he will still be so bloody-minded as to shit on his own easy-life.

This. With bells on.

Cheby · 04/04/2018 14:58

Don’t pussy foot around OP. Like PP have said, he could say it’s ok, then take you to court just days before you leave and prevent you from going.

Speak to your solicitor, woman up and take him to court, now. Thankfully he has put his ridiculous reason for wanting to prevent you going in an email. That’s good evidence to prove to a court that he has no real concerns about you leaving the county, he’s just being a selfish dick.

And for the love of all that is holy don’t invite him on your bloody holidays again. He’s an abusive controlling prick.

lalalalyra · 04/04/2018 15:08

For the child residency order, would the op need to apply for one everytime she wanted to go abroad?

No, it can be put in the order that the RP can take the child out of the country for up to 28 days at a time without permission.

My ex threatened this once and the judge basically called him out for being the twat he is. It's also in the order that I can vary contact with him to allow for a two week holiday (he threatened if I 'won' he'd just insist on EOW so that would mean it was awkward to go away if a flight time didn't sit).

Prometheus · 04/04/2018 15:11

Well that's nice that he wants to take her on her first foreign holiday. I hope you replied that you would withhold permission for her to leave the country? Two can play at that game....

AngelL7 · 04/04/2018 15:17

I may be wrong but I thought As the resident parent You though you could take the child on a foreign holiday without permission ?

He’s a complete bellend

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