State school next door vs Private school 45 mins away?

[ladysybilcrawley]

My dd is in year 5 at the moment, so we have a little while still to think about this.

She attends a private girls' prep school, which is attached to a secondary school. This secondary is frequently ranked in the top 10-20 schools in the country for A level/GCSE results. She's very clever, and will definitely get into the secondary (as she's a junior school girl she only has to pass the exam, no interview needed). We love the school - the only issue is that it's a 45 minute coach journey away. She gets up at 6:20 to leave the house at 7:15, in order to get the school coach at 7:30. The secondary finishes at 4pm, coach leaves at 4:15, she won't be home until after 5pm, or 6:30 if she has something after school.
There are also only 2-3 other girls from our town at this school.

Our other option is a co-Ed state comprehensive, Ofsted outstanding, that is a 2 minute walk from our house. It's seen as the best school in the town, and one of the best state schools in the county. It's a church school and we are churchgoers so she's practically guaranteed a place. She could get up at 8am and be on time. She would also be home by 3:45 normally, and before 5 if she had an after school commitment. She would also have the advantage of all her friends actually living in the same town as her, so it would be far easier for her to see them.

I know we're hugely fortunate to have this choice.

Does anyone have any opinions on whether the top private school, with very long day/travelling time and less sleep, is worth it when we have an excellent state school right next to us?

Go state in this case. I teach in an independent with long days and the kids find it knackering. Fine if there’s no other good option, but it sounds like you have a brilliant alternative.

I agree it's a no brainer, but I'd send her to the private school.

Depends on your financial situation and whether you can easily afford the independent school. If you can then I'd stick with the independent school.

School isn't just about grades, it sounds like she'll do well at either. It's also about self confidence, connections, aspiration, which she'll be more like to get (or retain) at her Independent school. Kids who are used to the private system can often find state schools a bit of a shock, and can be bullied for being posh etc.

We will also have the same dilemma, dc are at private prep at the moment but we're in the catchment of a top state secondary. If we can still afford the fees by the time they are secondary age we will stick with independent for the above reasons.

If the state school is 'outstanding' and on the doorstep, then your child will achieve their potential and have access to similar extra curricular opportunities. Fees can be spent on tutoring and further enrichment. The shorter school day, without the commute, will lend itself to more revision, opportunities for paid part time work when that time comes, local friendships.

My dc used to slog a similar commute to their (allegedly top) private school. Sometimes it was dark when they left home and dark again when they returned, with friendships over a vast geographical area.

They left with a fantastic set of results, but so did their friends who went to the local outstanding comp : they're all at good universities now and you wouldn't know which among them had been privately educated.

Drama, music and sport probably superior at the private school if your dc are so inclined, but you can seek that out yourselves locally.

State school in my opinion. I couldnt put my DCs through that commute.

I travelled to school and I hated it.

An outstanding state school and a child who is academically above average is every parent's dream. Put the money you are saving away for her and that will also give her a great financial start in life!

State next door. Save the fees for a house deposit for her.

Where do most of the local kids go?

My family moved from a dormitory town with the only private secondary education in the "city" which was an hour away.
I went to state school there - it was really good, lots of extracurricular etc.

We moved to the city and I moved to went a similarly rated state school but it really wasn't comparable as in the city a huge proportion of kids are privately educated and my perception is that the majority of staff & parents who would contribute to the added value stuff in the state sector either work/send their kids privately.
I moved to the private sector.

Fuck me. How much privilege do you need to buy for your child? How lacking in ability or personality do you think she is that she won’t succeed at an outstanding state school? How awful are your near-neighbours that you would choose to send your daughter 45 minutes away in a coach to avoid them? How Christian is it to use your wealth to support a private education system that entrenches unfairness and privilege to widen the gap between rich and poor? How far apart do you want your daughter to grow up from children who don’t have her advantages?

I had a 45 minute-ish journey to my secondary school (state grammar) and it was pretty standard. Others had longer journeys. . I used to get the bus at 7.35 in the morning. We finished at 3.35 so I was probably home around 4:30ish. I did it from 12 to 18 and it didn't bother me at all.

I'd say go for the school you/she likes most and don't worry about the commute.

State school without a doubt. DD 2 went to her secondary with her friendship group and they have all drifted into new groups. DD1 is firm friends with her 2 best friends from primary despite going to a different secondary. Social media has changed everything we all know about 'staying in touch'.

Really don't get hung up on friendship groups. Especially if she's gregarious. She'll keep old friends and make new. State school will also give her a more rounded social mix. It's important to learn to get on with people from all walks of life. Private school is very insular in that way. (I went to a large public school, which was lovely but very isolated from the 'real' world.

If she's smart she will excel at a state school. There is also a 'more positive' encouragement to recruit from the state sector at the top flight Unis . For example Cambridge now gives more places to state educated students than Private.

Last and not least, the journey.. no brainier !

what are the extra curricula activities like in both schools and what emphasis is placed upon them. This is where the independents can win out.

Whilst I wish it weren't so, i found an all girls school meant that we were free to explore our full potential academically although that may have been at the expense of social interaction with the opposite sex?!

If it were me...

I'd ask what your DD will get from the private school that's worth the extra fees and lengthy commute.

I'd be strongly inclined to go state for now, save money for any tutoring during the GCSE years (if needed) and then possibly reconsider private for A levels.

Move house?

I would go for the state school, just so much easier long term and sounds like a very good school. Easier long term for seeing friends and good for her possibly to with a wider spectrum of people. If she's clever age will so we'll anywhere with decent teaching, it may even help her get a university place to be coming from a relatively less privileged school. Put the saved fees towards any extra curricular activities the state school may not match the private for, plus university which is getting increasingly expensive.

Excuse my various predictive text typos! She will succeed anywhere that should say

If she's as clever as you say, then stick with the indie. State schools can be excellent, but remember that they have to get as many passes at 9- 4 (A-C as was) so resources are focussed on the low/middle achievers.

I moved DD for this very reason. Her school were throwing resources at the level 3-4 kids in order to increase their grades - leaving the more able kids to "coast". DD has an IQ of 149 and is predicted level 8 and 9's in all subjects but at the state school we were seeing a steady decline as there was no motivation/challenge. Gifted and Talented was sidelined into non- existence as the Head did not agree with it. This trend has been reversed at the indie she attends and she has her love for learning back. I only wish we'd moved her earlier.

Obviously all schools are different and I can only give you my experience, but I was a governor at state school and ended up resigning due to the direction the school was moving in. Also remember OFSTED ratings can change as can the schools ethos/performance if the SLT changes. So what is outstanding now may not always be.

And just to say that private schools do often impress with the extra curricular stuff, as you fondly imagine your dc availing themselves of every opportunity. The truth is that there'll be 2-3 things that your dd gravitates towards, and they're the only things you need to compare. Does the state school offer them too, or can you seek out those experiences yourself?

also remember Ofsted ratings change

Yes, and that applies to private schools too, inspected by Ofsted or SIS.

@EastMidsMummy

I said 'churchgoer' not 'Christian'.

Private secondary schools are not all they are cracked up to be... believe me! I went to 2 private secondary schools (same sex and mixed) and 1 state (mixed). The private schools were rife with sex, alcohol, drugs, eating-disorders and ruthless students. The (badly rated) state school was tame in comparison!!

With that option, I'd be inclined to go for the state school. If it doesn't work out, you can always reapply to the private school for yr 8 or 9 entry. But visit both schools. We live near two 'outstanding' state schools. I wouldn't let my children near one of them. The other, I'd let them attend if they had to, but I find it a bit depressing and reminiscent of my own pretty crappy state school. Imo, the difference between outstanding state and outstanding private schools is very noticeable. So much depends on the school leadership and ethos.

Trying to think of a girls school with a prep and a coach service that appears in the top 20 schools and the only one I can think of is LEH in Hampton?

Have you actually looked at the difference in GCSE results OP? A friend was in a similar predicament over Guildford High School until she realised GHS acheives about 95% A*-A and her local outstanding comp about 35%. That's a huge gulf in expectations. Also, your DD will be used to smaller class sizes and no disruption tolerated in a girls prep. Going into a class of 30 (inc boys) may be more of a shock than she thinks?

At somewhere like LEH or Guildford High, the advice when applying for uni options is totally different than in state. If a school regularly sends 30% of it pupils to Oxbridge, you don't need to be an outlier to see this as achievable.

Have you considered moving house?

Have you viewed the state school? I take it you have already seen the attached secondary.

I would say that Ofsted results and reputation have little bearing to how good a school actually is. I would never in a million years send my DD to my local Ofsted outstanding secondary.

Most importantly you want a school that will be a good fit for your dd. The aspects of a school that makes a good fit for her won't be the same as other children.

For these reasons I would see the state school, and other local state schools, (and the secondary if you haven't yet) and have an open mind. You may well be surprised by which one you prefer.

@BellBookandCandle

"but remember that they have to get as many passes at 9- 4 (A-C as was) so resources are focussed on the low/middle achievers."

But true any more, in the new era of progress 8, getting the magical 5A-Cs is meaningless now. It's all about the progress students make (with more weighting to the more able students). I have to identify the students I can get to progress onto the next level and focus my interventions on them. For me, my most underachieving students are the more able.... so I've been instructed to focus on them.

When you say that you are a churchgoer but not a Christian does that mean you are faking it and hedging your bets to potentially take a place from another child?