To think there should be much more stop and search to try and prevent gun and knifeel crime?

[Creambun2]

Gun and knife crime is getting worse and worse in london especially.

I think there needs to be much much more stop and search to try and help with this problem. I'm not sure why people have a problem with profiling. What is the point of searching 30 something mum's in kew, whereas young men 16 to 25 in parts of Hackney are of course more likely to be involved on gang crime.

How does the "rights" of youths not to be searched trump the rights of (other young people in the main) not to be killed or hurt.

I also think it is worrying that as in the past some estates in london have virtually been abandoned by the police, and people wonder why gangs hold power and control in some areas?

Get all this gang shit off youtube etc too.

Didn’t really work in the early 2000s though?

Seems effective in Scotland when combined with other programmes too.

The right to equal treatment by the police isn't a priority for you then? Especially for young black men?

What is the point of searching 30 something mum's in kew, whereas young black men 16 to 25 in parts of Hackney are of course more likely to be involved on gang crime.

I've just fixed that for you so that your racist dog-whistle is easier for those with slightly deadened hearing to detect.

The right to equal treatment by the police isn't a priority for you then? Especially for young black men?

This

You need to have a reason to stop and search, it's unlawful to just stop and search with no reasonable grounds. I didn't find it particularly effective when I was in uniform. Mostly found the odd bag of weed.

And being young, black and in Hackney isn't reasonable grounds

I don’t want to live in that kind of society. in all likelihood it would just perpetuate more crime because those who are typically picked on would be more likely to feel ostracised from society. We need to make all members of our society feel like they belong here and that they are valued - not to push them further away. Education and support is what is needed, not this kind of thing.

I'll put my hard hat on and agree with you creampuff

Sorry OP, this is a subject I have studied considerably and so know you (like many others) are barking up the wrong tree

Stop and search has been researched intensively (by the College of Policing and others) and the evidence is that it has a marginal only effect of detecting or preventing crime; but it has a significant adverse effect on community relations with police.

The latter is important in policing terms because the most effective form of stop and search is intelligence led policing and that is directly affected by the state of community relations. So more non-intelligence led stop and searches are both useless and make the situation worse.

In the London area only 14% of stops and searches are for offensive weapons. Stop and search is primarily used for small amounts of cannabis, which many police are now seeing as a waste of time and resources. The more effective policing use stop and search amongst other tools as part of an intelligence led approach .So the number of stop and searches goes down but it is more targeted and often after surveillance etc.

Currently only 17% of stop and searches conducted under PACE Section 1 lead to an arrest. So still a lot of innocent people are being stopped.Training on unconscious bias may help but also a real culture change in the public and media not to fetishise stop and search as a panacea. The truth is we need more police and particularly detective and intelligence officers to make policing in London more effective.We also need a restoration of youth services as they were both a counter to the grooming going on in drugs gangs of younger teenagers and a source of police intelligence.

I am happy later to send links but not in a position at the moment

@CuboidalSlipshoddy

I find people with views like yours and constant cries of racism usually those who live in middle class areas where youth violent crime is only read about in the papers. "Dog-whistle". Pathetic.

Say someone was assaulted by a white female, about 20 years old and 5ft9 who had a weapon... If you rang the police and gave over the description/profile of that person, then you'd fully expect the police to stop and search any females matching the description. To me, that's absolutely fine.

What's not okay for me is police stopping and searching because someone is more likely to be carrying a weapon but there is no evidence that they are.

If anyone acting suspicious or the police have been informed someone who matches that description may have a weapon, I don't care if you're white, black or bloody magenta. Male, female or trans. Young or old. I'd rather be safe than sorry and think the person should be searched. Why is it an issue if they have nothing to hide?

sirlee stop and search isn’t the police investigating a specific crime. It’s the police stopping ‘random’ people because they might have a knife/drugs/whatever.

well I start with an adequately staffed and funded police force ...

still it's getting like CB Bingo - we've had middle class as an insult - have you called anything vulgar yet?

This is the First Step

Actually just stopping and searching random people isn't lawful. Before stop and search, the police are required to have reasonable suspicion that a specified crime (such as possession of drugs, stolen goods, offensive weapon) has been committed.

So information reasonably accurately describing the offender may give rise to reasonable suspicion. Just assuming a young black person in a particular location is suspicious is not lawful.

well indeed justice but in practice, we know that’s not what happens.

I'd also look at reinstating and funding services for young people in those areas - the people who do really good work around gangs and knife crime - but who's funding has probably been zapped...

OP

Just accusing people if being "middle class" is a rubbish argument.

The more constructive discussions in the police and elsewhere are about not wasting valuable police staff time in useless, counter productive activity (like increasing numbers of stop and search) into more effective, intelligence led targeting of gang structures, county lines and grooming . Its much more about intercepting and safeguarding underage couriers, cuckooing, inter force cooperation and forensic/communications surveillance as just picking on random black boys going to school.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-43624392
Perhaps this explains more stop and search is needed in some areas of London.

Seems most care more about the rights of gangs than innocent people shot in cross fire.

Buster72
Even if the evidence is that more stop and search is counterproductive and takes police away from more effective means of stopping this type of crime?

Haven't rtft but I really don't think stop an search is the answer. It creates (quite rightly) contempt and hatred for the police in communities that are targeted. Even in totally law abiding people. That is definitely not what we want. And I think the past is proof that such an approach creates many more problems than it solves.

I don't care about the rights of gangs, but I do about the rights of inoccent BME boys getting harassed due to racial profiling and prejudice.

There was a copper in the news saying an holistic approach was needed and I wholeheartedly agree. We need to look at poverty and lack of opportunities young people face.

If by counterproductive you mean it annoys people most complaints surrounding it are that cops are rude. Both the act itself.
If you have the panacea for the current upswing in violent crime. Which follows the decrease in cop numbers, budgets and a push by a previous commissioner to reduce stop and search please let us know.

Not the act itself.