To think there should be much more stop and search to try and prevent gun and knifeel crime?

[Creambun2]

Gun and knife crime is getting worse and worse in london especially.

I think there needs to be much much more stop and search to try and help with this problem. I'm not sure why people have a problem with profiling. What is the point of searching 30 something mum's in kew, whereas young men 16 to 25 in parts of Hackney are of course more likely to be involved on gang crime.

How does the "rights" of youths not to be searched trump the rights of (other young people in the main) not to be killed or hurt.

I also think it is worrying that as in the past some estates in london have virtually been abandoned by the police, and people wonder why gangs hold power and control in some areas?

Get all this gang shit off youtube etc too.

All research points to stop and searches not working.

I don't really care what people's opinions are rather what the research says.

Buster 72

The evidence is there is no single answer though taking the public health approach apparently is looking promising in Scotland. That means looking at it like teen pregnancy or STDs at every aspect that contributes to risk including housing, youth services, education, neighbourhood policing, police intelligence, social care, urban design, peer pressure, diversion, targeted support, the list goes on....

The evidence is largely showing a correlation with cuts to youth services and loosening of wider social/family structures (caused by short term housing, precarious employment, etc). So for example the loss of EMA meant loss of an incentive to stay in education at 16-18 which meant less contact with adult role models like teachers, sports coaches and more time on the streets

The evidence I have seen conducted over a 10 year period in London indicates that stop and search does have an impact, but an overly robust approach can alienate communities. So at what point do you accept a level of violence and carrying of weapons justifiable in order to placate some individuals?
The" attitude" of officers is the most complained about factor and having some experience of this I always try be as calm considerate and polite as I can and I am not afraid to pull up colleagues who are incivil.
In fact I end most encounters with a thank you and hand shake.

academic.oup.com/bjc/advance-article-abstract/doi/10.1093/bjc/azx085/4827589?redirectedFrom=fulltext

I dont have access to the report at the moment but having read this 10 year Oxford University research report recently it shows that the effect of stop/search and crime is likely to be marginal, at best. While there is some association between stop and search and crime (particularly drug crime), claims that this is an effective way to control and deter offending seem misplaced.

This is an article about a similar study against showing minimal impact on detecting or preventing crime www.theguardian.com/law/2016/mar/17/mass-stop-and-search-police-crime-study

Evidence is better for adverse community impact when it is perceived to be unfair criminaljusticealliance.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/No-Respect-290617-1.pdf

This is what I posted the last time someone used the simplistic and incorrect argument about stop and search

Stop and search has been researched intensively (by the College of Policing and others) and the evidence is that it has a marginal only effect of detecting or preventing crime; but it has a significant adverse effect on community relations with police.

The latter is important in policing terms because the most effective form of stop and search is intelligence led policing and that is directly affected by the state of community relations. So more non-intelligence led stop and searches are both useless and make the situation worse.

In the London area only 14% of stops and searches are for offensive weapons. Stop and search is primarily used for small amounts of cannabis, which many police are now seeing as a waste of time and resources. The more effective policing use stop and search amongst other tools as part of an intelligence led approach .So the number of stop and searches goes down but it is more targeted and often after surveillance etc.

Currently only 17% of stop and searches conducted under PACE Section 1 lead to an arrest. So still a lot of innocent people are being stopped.

Training on unconscious bias may help but also a real culture change in the public and media not to fetishise stop and search as a panacea. The truth is we need more police and particularly detective and intelligence officers to make policing in London more effective.We also need a restoration of youth services as they were both a counter to the grooming going on in drugs gangs of younger teenagers and a source of police intelligence.

YABU OP - as stated by others - just increasing stop and search is an overly simplistic reaction and not actually effective - except as a vacuous gesture of "doing something".

I'm a white, middle-class, middle aged woman. An increase in stop and search would have zero effect on me. 25 years ago when I first moved to London, I stayed with a family member, who happened to be male, black, and a young looking 25yo. He also had a good job for a big car manufacturer which came with a nice company car. He was pulled over at least once a week for no other reason than how he looked. It alienates communities.

Seems most care more about the rights of gangs than innocent people shot in cross fire.

I care about the rights of young black men. I have been around a looooong time and saw the effects of stop and search through the ages. Good kids, bright kids, nice kids; feeling like criminals. And you know what, if you get treated like a criminal enough you start to think, "fuck it".

Oh, and it doesn't fucking work.

Well I mean, relations between the black community and the police are so great right now, what harm could it do?

(That was sarcasm by the way. And while you slag off other posters, maybe people who advocate for profiling are white middle class women who will never have to worry about being stopped, intimidated and possibly assaulted by police when they’ve done nothing wrong)