To think if you had to kill the animal yourself you wouldn’t eat meat

[Starchime22]

First off I’m not vegetarian, although I’m starting to lean that way, (as in, I eat fish, and occasionally meat if I’m in a restaurant, but never buy or cook meat myself) so it’s not my intention to criticise or goad omnivores.

But I’ve been thinking about how I’d have no problem killing a fish to eat, (and have) but definitely couldn’t kill a cow or a pig, and probably not a chicken. I’m not sure how many people could, really.

Is it right to eat something you couldn’t bear to kill yourself? Or watch being killed? I’m not saying it isn’t, just interested in what people think.

Kiki. You continually use very emotive language but it doesn't change the fact that methods employed to kill animals in the UK aren't 'violent'. It's fair enough that you don't want to eat meat but I wonder if you had actually witnessed animals being stunned and killed in a normal abattoir you would use the same language. I know that animal cruelty exists but I'm sure the vast majority of people working in abattoirs just want to get on with their work as quickly and smoothly as possible. It's in no ones interests for the animals to suffer or have prolonged deaths. Agitated or injured but conscious animals present a danger to the slaughter-men and slow things down. It's also well known that it's really bad for the quality of the meat.

I'm not saying that abattoirs run smoothly all the time but generally the animals don't suffer.

U.K. practice lamb in March separate in May

Depends on where you are in the country. All the farms round me (Highlands) lamb in April and May and the lambs stay with their mums until the second week of August, which is about when they'd be weaning themselves naturally anyway.

Kiki "some people find it harder to stomach" which is why you keep going on about it whether it's relevant or not, presumably? Like "violence for enjoyment" it's not actually what's happening, just something you're hoping will upset people enough to achieve a conversion?

Vegan evangelists are as loosely connected to what might actually be true as the self righteous evangelicals of any other religions, and as content with cognitive dissonance most of the time too.

I totally agree, I am vegan and have been vegetarian since I was 8 years old because I could never kill an Animal.
I won't eat what I won't kill. I've been in abattoir and it was hideous. Not necessarily cruel but so much death and I want no part of that. I don't judge anyone else and 1 of my children eats meat it for me I won't do it.
FWIW I also grow my own fruit and veg.

Kki The teeth + digestive system = omnivores is nonsense and you know it. When was the last time you saw someone bite nto a 'raw' animal then settled to eat their kill?
There's a process and an hour and a half at 180 degrees C needed before it's palatable for humans.
PS I look forward to your litany of 'facts', 'figures' and emotive guff.

I haven't rtft but this is exactly why I'm a pescatarian. i could not kill or eat an animal other than fish so i dont eat it. i could easily farm and kill fish. farm cows and get milk as long as its done properly. same with eggs etc. i kind of assumed everyone followed the same logic! my 7yrs old daughter loves her meat but by the same token she knows exactly where it comes from and accepts it.

Scottish well, I am partial to a bit of sushi and carpaccio... But yeah, there's a reason why we can't eat grass but cows can. I like a lot of veg raw though, or only very lightly cooked.

I would. But not cephalopods, which I don't eat now.

I would and I have. I would again.

"The teeth + digestive system = omnivores is nonsense and you know it. When was the last time you saw someone bite nto a 'raw' animal then settled to eat their kill?"

That's a foolish argument. The answer is: Personally never, but that's what our ancestors did, and we would do it again in a heartbeat if stranded with no possibility of making fire.

There is nothing like hunger to crystallise one's thoughts. Don't think for a minute that you would be too noble to sink your teeth into your family pet if you had no food for a week.

To answer OP: I love meat, my body thrives on it, and I'd slit the animal's throat myself if necessary. HTH.

Yes quite - we can't eat potatoes raw and most beans are toxic raw if eaten in quantity but that doesn't mean we are in some fuzzy way not "meant" to eat potatoes or beans.

We can digest cooked meat and use it to fuel or bodies, as we can cooked potatoes and beans. That's pretty much what it is to be an omnivore.

are you sure your craving for meat isn’t a craving for calories, fat, protein or b12? All of which you can get from plant based sources

Vitamins B12 and D are the only two vitamins not produced by plants. Vitamin D is produced by humans from sunlight, and vitamin B12 can be taken in the form of supplements.

Cote, congrats to be the 450,000,000,000 with the 'ancestors' argument. IF you do a bit of research you would find that meat eating among our predecessors was a pretty rare event. They weren't that great at the catching, storing, prepping thing.
If we had no food for much less than a week we would have reverted to hunter gathering mentality rather than sitting hugging the radiators pondering what shade of grey to paint the hall and the beloved family pets would be fending for themselves.
Also, fortunate as I am never to have visited a food bank for receipt of help, I'm yet to hear of Pets Corner' being set up in one.
HTH.

melt it’s not emotive it’s factual. Killing is violence.

evelyn in what way is it not violence for enjoyment?

melt I’ve seen lots of U.K. slaughterhouse footage that says differently and the facts are that due to requirements for speedd many animals aren’t properly stunned before they are killed.

But consider best practice- if the way that animals are killed was fine to a healthy human, would you say they were being treated violently or not?

evelyn I’m only interested in what’s true. I’m not using emotive language it’s the truth. We are bombarded with advertisements for happy meals, juicy, tasty, delicious animal products and on the other hand we are asked not to think of the sentient beings that die for it. I’m actually pointing out logical fallacies not just being emotive. I could start talking about murder of cute innocent babies but that’s not helpful or accurate.

I’m not evangelical, I just love animals and abhor deliberate unnecessary violence towards them. If someone on your street was shooting healthy dogs would you say that’s fine, personal choice, or would you speak out? Like any other social justice movement- anti slavery, votes for women etc if you feel strongly about the cause you should lend your voice to it.

Scottish think you’ve directed a message to me about canine teeth- wasn’t me that said that (I actually pointed out that many vegetarian animals have bigger canines),

Monger can get plant based sources of both (supplements). Most food animals are injected with b12 and cows milk is fortified with D anyway.

Yes, I would. Helped my GM kill and clean chicken, rabbits, ducks, helped when they slaughtered a pig. Made me appreciate the food more than rejecting it.

I'd eat less meat if I had to kill it mysel, if only for practical reasons. I'd definitely kill a pig once a year though - that'd be well worth the effort - as well as a few chickens, and maybe a lamb or two on special occasions....

Cote our ancestors were not the best moral role-models for us. They also raped and assaulted each other, killed disabled infants, in some cases had ritual sacrifice of people etc etc (I could go on, ancestors could refer to a lot of different people!)

If animals matter morally, which as a society we seem to think they do as we want them to be treated humanely etc, then looking at what our ancestors did won’t help us to move forward towards a more ethical treatment of them.

In relation to eating a pet if you’re starving- I’m only against unnecessary violence to animals, and I think that humans matter morally more than they do, so in a rare “it’s you or the animal” situation I have no issue with those who pick the human. Unless of course the human has engineered the situation to make it them vs the animal such as with bullfighting.

In some parts of the world, dogs aren't pets, they are food.

Where i grew up, we raise our own animals to eat. When things became 'modern' we let the cattle rearer do it. When slaughter came, the cow belonged to six families so we don't eat copious amounts of meat.

However, at celebrations such as Christmas and Eid, we killed our own cows, goats, Turkey, rams and Chicken. Every male from age 12 does the killing, every female from age 10 did the gutting and preparing. We eat ALL of the animal apart from the hair.

It's against my culture to eat a young of any animal though so i can never eat lamb or veal.

So yeah, I'm an omnivore and will always eat meat. There is very poor treatment of animals in the UK. I think keeping 'pets' is poor treatment of animals too. See, we've all got opinions.

"Cote, congrats to be the 450,000,000,000 with the 'ancestors' argument. IF you do a bit of research you would find that meat eating among our predecessors was a pretty rare event. They weren't that great at the catching, storing, prepping thing."

Talk for yourself. My ancestors were nomads and their well-documented diet consisted almost entirely of meat and other animal products like milk (incl. horse milk), cheese, and yoghurt.