'Rapists' anonymity

[lostjanni]

Have been reading the post about the Irish rugby players and it got me thinking, do people accused of rape deserve anonymity until they're found guilty?

In my opinion yes, it was on the news a while ago that a man was accused and put through 15 months of he'll, lost his jobs, friends and family. And it turned out the girl had made it all up and had texts to prove she was lying. That guy suffered immenseley. And many do when wrongly accused. So I was thinking AIBU to think people accused of rape or sexual assault crimes should be kept anonymous until proven guilty?

No I'm just sick of people who post completely nonsensical responses to try and invalidate a point. You come across as ill educated or simply lacking common sense. And I don't have time or patience for that.

Seriously - you've tried to compare telling someone you've been raped with telling someone you've been burgled. Completely different - the person listening to those complaints will respond in totally different ways. For a burglary, you'd generally believe them - there's not culture around those to make you think otherwise. For a rape, there be that moment of "But.... where you really". So when it comes out that people are lieing about it, it reinforces that response.

Obviously not everyone would think that way, but there is a culture around it and liars make it impossible to move away from that.

You trying to compare them is idiotic and I'm embarrassed for you.

We had a male PE teacher in my school (after I had left) who was accused of sexually assaulting a female pupil. He went through hell until it was found out that she had made it up. His career was over by that point. I really felt sorry for him as he was a bloody good teacher & a really nice bloke.

@PleaseDontGoadTheToad

You might find it ridiculous, but it's not.

I originally studied Psychology, many years ago, and wrote a review of several papers involve rape victims, societies reaction and the issue of belief spanning modern history.

It's not always nice reading. And it's been a fight to be heard. And when people lie, then reaction of the general public includes "well, a lot of them lie so what do you expect".

Your personal experience does not nullify everything that has come before.

I'm well aware that rape and burglary are completely different things thanks.

You keep saying that people tend to disbelieve people who say they've been raped but you're not actually engaging your brain and thinking about why this is.

I know fine well that people disbelieve rape victims in a way that doesn't happen in other crimes. I also know exactly why this is (hint; it has nothing to do with false accusations).

It's one aspect of it. This isn't a thread about the complexity of the issue. It was a "how can we deal with men who been falsely accused" discussion. So, i made points relates to that topic.
I'm pretty sure that your knowledge of the subject is not exhaustive, so you can move yourself on now.

Nope, I really don't think I will move myself along thanks. I'm actually quite comfy here

People who understand the statistics, the police, the researched, the dedicated journalists know how few and far between false allegations are.

The problem is the general public - you ask random people on the street if people make up rape and report it, a good number will say yes. If you ask if that makes them sexond guess assault stories, people will say yes. I'm talking about those people.

It's getting better - especially with all the recent movements. But pretending it's not an issue society has ever faced? Really.

Uh, yes dear, that's my bloody point.

If anyone is interested, there is a great article in Vox about why women aren't believed. Goes into a light history of the general "women can't be trusted" views, along with many other historical reasons that still continue today.

So, when someone does lie, it reinforces those archaic beliefs which, unfortunately, are still prevalent.

I can't paste the link on my phone but Google "vox - why don't people believe rape victims"

Most people here are well aware of the reasons women aren't believed.

Personally I like to challenge these reasons rather than lie down and accept them. IF that makes me an uneducated idiot them so be it.

*then

Stupid phone.

You know there s a police station in America who called the rape unit the "lying both department" don't You?

Some police are getting better, but it's still the culture that women lie. So when it's proven one has lied, those views are validated.

Whatever point you're trying to make, you've failed.

*lying bitch department

And I'll continue to challenge and question that culture thanks.

You don't have a clue what you're doing.

First, it's nothing to do with false reporting. Then it's yes, my point Is people think women lie.

What are you on about?

I've never said false reporting caused those beliefs. I've said it reinforces those beliefs. You've said it does nothing of the sort, has nothing to do with it. Then it's "yes dear, that's my point".

You have no idea what you're trying to say, or you completely misunderstood what I was saying.

If you want to challenge that culture then you need to accept that false accusations are part of it.

You cannot dispel that myth with the general public unless you accept that's one of the reasons they think this way. You've argued and refused to accept that it has anything to do with why people don't believe, so you won't be able to challenge them effectively.

To challenge it, you need to be able to say "you might think women lie, and have heard a few cases of that happening, but actually, here are the statistics".

If you don't accept that it's part of the issue, then you can't tackle it when finding solutions.

Yabu

Why should they get anonymity but not those accused of any other crime?

The conviction rate for rape is ridiculously low. The vast majority of rapists get away with it. Even those that are cleared in court it simply means that the burden of proof wasnt met - not that they were innocent.

My friend went through this a couple of years ago. He admitted going to far in court. He admitted it was wrong and he admitted apologising. He admitted in court she said no. He was acquitted.

It's misogyny plain and simple.

"The conviction rate for rape is ridiculously low. "

No. That's a rape myth.

It's similar to other serious crimes. HTH

Ersatz

I'm sorry but that is incorrect. According to Rape Crisis the only 5.7% of reported rapes result in a conviction.

Couldn't get much lower.

Hah, yes, let's focus on a minuscule number of (presumably mentally ill?) accusers and make it even harder overall for rapists to be known about and convicted. Great job OP!

I also think all criminal accusations (and convictions) should be secret, because if you think about it really hurts people's human rights for others to know what total shits they are.

The discrepancy is due to whether the conviction rate is expressed per total crimes reported or cases prosecuted.

If the former it’s around 5% and if the latter it’s slightly lower than for other serious crimes.

Rape has an attrition rate from report to court like no other crime.

In Ireland those found guilty are named in rape cases. But accused person is not named prior to a verdict.
The cases are not open to the public but reporting on the case is allowed with no names mentioned.
I think it is a better system than that in Northern Ireland.

If you give them anonymity, then no one else can come forward I'd they've also been targeted.

I don't know the statistics on whether rapists are most often repeat offenders and one-off offenders. If it's most often a pattern, then making them anonymous will make discovering those patterns almost impossible.

People quoting false allegation statistics really need to quote their sources as the CPS doesnt keep numbers, so everything is a guess by those who want false accusations to be rare. We need to distinguish between false accusations and inappropriate accusations too. Getting charged is something of a postcode lottery but there are areas in the country that will always prosecute a complaint against a minor no matter what and others that will charge based on the seriousness of a complaint, rather than actual evidence, as a sexual offence is largely a private matter and the complainers statement is the only evidence required, which explains why fantasists get ‘believed’. The way some people go on you’d think every man and boy in the country was a rapist, paedophile or both. Seems to me our men and boys need protecting and honestly, why do women deserve to be believed more than men? ALL parties deserve to be taken seriously. Those who don’t believe lives are ruined (if you’re accused of a sexual offence and have small children, look forward to being told to leave your home and a fight to see them long before you're charged or convicted, and to have to ‘prove yourself’ to social services even if you don’t get charged), or that false/misrepresented allegations are exceedingly rare need to do some research. Guesses are not facts. Our courts are collapsing under the weight of sexual trials and even when the prosecution fails the ‘no smoke without fire’ brigade have a field day. No-one wants to pay attention to the cases that got to the court door and stopped there because there was no crime in the first place and when complainants are prosecuted as a matter of policy, it happens more than you think. We live in such a prurient society these days - its appalling for all concerned.

The ONLY reason ever provided by the courts for allowing those accused of rape to be named is that other potential victims would become aware and may then come forward.

THIS IS BULLSHIT!

Because by definition ANY other victims would be historical. There by negating any immediate forensic opportunities. So there would be no need to persue that investigation immediately.

For such a sensetive accusation there should anonymity for all parties.

Im not sure how rape and sexual assault has become the hippy crack of the bleeding heart masses, orher serious crimes dont seem to get a look in. For example 17 people have been stabbed to death on the streets of london in the past three months. Any protest marches for that? And I'm not minimising rape or sexual assault by the way. It is a terrible crime, but it's not the only serious crime taking place.

You can see how skewed things have become when women scream from the rooftops that we just want equality, while at the same time they are marching in the streets demanding that an accusation of something should be enough to convict a man and that men's behaviour should held to higher standards than their own.

It makes me embarrassed to be a woman sometimes.