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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

'Rapists' anonymity

311 replies

lostjanni · 29/03/2018 16:15

Have been reading the post about the Irish rugby players and it got me thinking, do people accused of rape deserve anonymity until they're found guilty?

In my opinion yes, it was on the news a while ago that a man was accused and put through 15 months of he'll, lost his jobs, friends and family. And it turned out the girl had made it all up and had texts to prove she was lying. That guy suffered immenseley. And many do when wrongly accused. So I was thinking AIBU to think people accused of rape or sexual assault crimes should be kept anonymous until proven guilty?

OP posts:
DeleteOrDecay · 29/03/2018 16:42

No. Doesn't happen for other crimes, why should (potential) rapists get special treatment?

Original poster
lostjanni · 29/03/2018 16:44

@Twittlebee. From my point of view and I'm sorry but was he convicted? Or charged?
So he lost his home and job. And friends and family. And he wasn't proven guilty?

OP posts:
rollingonariver · 29/03/2018 16:46

Completely disagree that rapists lose anything when accused. People don't give a shit.
I told my boss one of her other employees had raped me and it turned out he'd also raped two more employees, she just didn't care. He also lost none of his friends, he still has a string of different gfs, no one gives a shit in real life. And yes people know, he's been accused now by eight different girls, the number just keeps going up. I was number six less than two years ago btw SmileSmileSmile

Avasarala · 29/03/2018 16:47

Just to be clear; I don't agree with anonymity. Seeing the little snippets we get from family court are terryifing - worse because we can't go find out what happening. With rape, it's not like to other crimes because it's so much he said/she said. A lot of people are found not guilty when we all see all the evidence and think "They totally did it, but there's not enough for beyond reasonable doubt".
The only protection future partners have is the ability to look people up and decide for themselves.

But, in cases were it is so clear that women made it up, those women should be named and prosecuted every single time. At the moment, they get to remain anonymous. They shouldn't be name in cases were it's not guilty due to lack of evidence but they should be name when it's clear they made it up.

rollingonariver · 29/03/2018 16:48

Also I know two people who have been on the jury for different rape cases, it's extremely hard to convict. It doesn't mean they're not guilty, in fact I'd say most men who get away with it are. People can be incredibly manipulative.

TwittleBee · 29/03/2018 16:49

lostjanni it didn't even get as far as court because, despite there being messages to him admitting to it online, the police said there was a lack of evidence because there were no witnesses to the event. It would have been my word versus his word (despite the messages of him admitting to raping me in my sleep, he knew fully well I was drugged up on sleeping pills and did not give consent!!!)

The vast majority of rapes never get to court because how do you come up with any evidence for something like rape?

Lizzie48 · 29/03/2018 16:50

TRIGGER WARNING

No, I don't agree. My DSis and I suffered SA as little girls and we reported one of the assaults to the police, the man we actually knew had died, it was his accomplice we reported, who we didn't know. There wasn't enough for the CPS to take the case to court, though the police were sure they had found the right man.

It's a comfort to me to know that his case remains on file and they can reopen the case if more evidence comes to light. It will also show on DBS checks so he won't be able to work with children. That's something.

larrygrylls · 29/03/2018 16:50

I don't think that rape should be a special case.

We do have a system of open justice but it does have bad effects on both the accused and the victim. I don't think rape should be especially singled out for either the accuser or the victim. We should either make the whole case in confidence or open. And if we do that, we should apply it to other crimes, too.

It is a really tough one. I think the idea of publicising a person (especially a famous one) and inviting other people to 'come forward' is inviting miscarriages of justice.

There is no easy solution in the days of twitter etc. Personally I think that maybe only accredited organs should be able to report criminal cases (I.E not social media, which has no meaningful regulation). Trial by social media (including this site) can rapidly become a witch hunt.

TwittleBee · 29/03/2018 16:50

rollingonariver so sorry to hear how different our stories are in terms of how no one cared. Sending you hugs and I hope that you never have to encounter anything like this again

Wheresmyfuckingcupcake · 29/03/2018 16:51

are you agitating for complainants in all categories of case where there is an acquittal to be prosecuted? Or is it only women who complain of rape who should face this?
Just wondering what the logic is here, if logic is the word i want

TwittleBee · 29/03/2018 16:53

larrygrylls interestingly it became a witch hunt for me on the online world (despite him admitting to it there) because people said I shouldn't have ruined his real life by reporting to the police. I am just grateful that everyone in real life supported me when I went to the police. I had to delete my social media accounts and totally remove myself from the gaming world for the hate I was receiving.

larrygrylls · 29/03/2018 16:55

Twittle,

I think that is exactly why live criminal cases should not be discussed in social media at all. Too easy for tribe mentality to triumph.

What happened to you sounds awful.

BlueSapp · 29/03/2018 16:57

Avasarala, the system allows for this and I have see before where these types of malicious accusations are prosecuted for perjury or wasting police time.

DeleteOrDecay · 29/03/2018 16:58

But, in cases were it is so clear that women made it up, those women should be named and prosecuted every single time. At the moment, they get to remain anonymous. They shouldn't be name in cases were it's not guilty due to lack of evidence but they should be name when it's clear they made it up.

They are prosecuted but there has to be a trial first before people start naming and shaming.

TatianaLarina · 29/03/2018 16:58

We need better press regulation is all.

Irresponsible papers tend to use rape cases as titillation.

The vast majority of rape cases are tried without anyone’s names getting into the papers. It’s only if a case is noteworthy in some way that it makes national press.

Teutonic · 29/03/2018 16:58

Yes. I've seen a family torn apart, had to leave their home, which meant the kids had to change schools and them being dreadfully bullied, and a suicide within that family due to a malicious false rape claim, which had the accused been granted anonymity, would never have happened.
I'm in favour of anyone who is accused of any crime remaining anonymous until proven guilty.

Avasarala · 29/03/2018 16:59

@Wheresmyfuckingcupcake

Is your message directed at me? Because if it is, go read my posts again.

I said the accuser - could be male or female.
I said only when it is 100% clear that they made it up, like finding diaries/texts or what have you.
I specifically said this should not happen for every not guilty as so many are found not guilty even though it looks like they really did it, but there's not enough evidence. I've been very clear on that.
When I referenced women, I was thinking of the recent cases in the UK where they've finally revealed messages proving these girls lied.

I have been very very clear that they should not name accusers simply because the defendant is found not guilty. I was very clear when I said it's so hard to prove rape and they get away with it even when we all think "they did it". So, naming accusers just cos someone got away with it is not what I said.

Only when they uncover concrete proof that someone lied. Go read my posts again instead of trying to take offence.

My reason for feeling this way is because rape is already so hard to prove, so when these women lie it makes I even harder for the next true case.

AngelsSins · 29/03/2018 17:00

Why only rape OP? Why not murder? GBH? Fraud? Is it because women can't be trusted? Because men's lives being ruined is more important than women's lives being ruined?

DeleteOrDecay · 29/03/2018 17:01

How would people like John Warboys and Barry Bennal get convicted if they were/are allowed to remain anonymous?

Avasarala · 29/03/2018 17:02

@BlueSapp

Yes, the system allows for it. But, even in the big recent cases, nothing has been done to those women. It might come soon but nothing yet. And people making false claims like this, make it even harder for real victims to be heard. My point is they should be prosecuted every time.

TatianaLarina · 29/03/2018 17:02

I don’t think the small number of women who lie has much effect on justice.

The general skepticism and perception that women may be lying when they report rape, which is shared by police (cf the Worboys case), has a much bigger, deeper impact on justice. This is a massive problem.

BlueSapp · 29/03/2018 17:03

But these big recent cases may not be a case of lying again it could be a case of not enough evidence

Avasarala · 29/03/2018 17:06

@BlueSapp

You might not know the ones I'm thinking of. There's loads all the time so hard to guess.

I can't remember the men's names, but one was let go because they found the woman's diary, another was text messages and another was Facebook messages. All of the girls writing about the relationship, or saying things like "he didn't rape me, I just want him to suffer". Stuff like that.

JAPAB · 29/03/2018 17:08

do people accused of rape deserve anonymity until they're found guilty?

In principle yes. Though I know there are pragmatic arguments along the lines of how other victims may come forward if they learn he has been accussed in other incidents.

In a perfect world they would find a way to encourage more reporting so other victims would already have registered their complaints, and then the genuinly innocent won't get the shame. But that is not easy, I appreciate.

FancyNewBeesly · 29/03/2018 17:08

Interesting, since men found guilty of rape don’t really seem to have their lives ruined, I’d be amazed if those accused and allegations prove to be false have their lives actually ruined.

More concerned about the fact that about 95% of rape cases don’t lead to a conviction, to be honest.