To refuse to shop in places with a minimum card spend?

[kenchurch]

Not sure if I am being unreasonable or not.

It's 2018 and almost everyone used a debit (or credit) card to buy things.
I very rarely carry cash on me.

I point blank refuse to shop anywhere with a minimum total spend to be able to use my card.

Example; I'd fancied a specific type of chocolate all day and had a fairly rubbishy day. Went to shop with £1.05 in change (!). This chocolate is usually £1. It was £1.20, so I went to use my card, but no, minimum £5 spend. So I put the chocolate back, and the guy said he had other types for £1, but instead of giving in and getting one, I just said no thanks and left.

I'm sorry that it costs you to have a card reader etc, but other business also have extra costs associated with the modern age, such as WIFI or other softwares.

It's part of the cost of running a shop so face it and swallow it.

AIBU?

You are not unreasonable to not want to buy something if you don't want to use your card but they are not unreasonable to not accept your card. They might make a loss by the time they have paid the card fee and why should they do that. If I really want something and there is a minimum spend, I sometimes offer to pay the charge/credit card fee. Small business usually accept.

So if you spend £1, they get charged 20p plus a percentage.

I realise we know "fuck all", to quote the delightful shop-keeper upthread, but that simply isn't true.

iZettle pricing: 1.75%, no monthly charge. So the pound costs them less than two pence. So if they're paying 20p, that's their problem, not mine.

I thought I'd heard iZettle were poor on settlement, but they actually claim two working days.

www.izettle.com/gb/pricing

Square is unsurprisingly the same:

squareup.com/gb/pricing

Any business that is paying 37p per card transaction or anything similar must be getting well and truly ripped off. One quick google search will provide you with a good number of Card readers with 1.75 - 2% transaction fees.
So for that chocolate bar the shop would of had to pay 2.4p max, seems insane that a business could not swallow that instead of turning away customers.

So for that chocolate bar the shop would of had to pay 2.4p max, seems insane that a business could not swallow that instead of turning away customers.

And therefore it is unlikely to be the case. Small business owners have told me they have to pay a flat fee and unless they are stupid they probably have more insight than someone who has just done a googles search.

Small business owners have told me they have to pay a flat fee and unless they are stupid they probably have more insight than someone who has just done a googles search.

If they were that brilliant, they wouldn't be small business owners.

The idea that small business owners make rational decisions in full possession of the facts is fanciful. As any number of failing cupcake businesses will attest.

Small businesses often just take whatever merchant deal their bank offers them. Many of those are expensive. There are options.

I realise we know "fuck all", to quote the delightful shop-keeper upthread, but that simply isn't true.

Wow. You're delightful.

Well it's entirely up to you - you can shop where you want. But it's also entirely up to a business to decide it is not worthwhile accepting a card and paying the cost for such a small transaction. It's still pretty normal and understandable, so I think YABU to act so surprised and make such a big deal out of it. Personally I always ask in a slightly embarrassed way if it is OK to use a card when I discover I am out of cash and it is less than £5. I'm always surprised when they say yes.

Those of you who prefer to use a card all the time, even for small amounts. Don't you get irritated by all the teeny tiny amounts on your bank statement when you are trying to check that there are no mistakes and keep a general eye on what your finances are doing. Our bank statement is so LONG these days!

I do still use cash sometimes, but personally I find card much easier to keep track of finances with. Cash relies on me remembering where I spent it. But then i don't get statements.

Small business owners everywhere, you're all thick as pig shit and all need to google search and move over the iZettle immediately!

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Don't you get irritated by all the teeny tiny amounts on your bank statement when you are trying to check that there are no mistakes

No. Because I don't check the statements for trivia.

I know, I know, I'm shockingly irresponsible. Sometimes I go out in the cold without a coat on, too. On occasions I even have two cups of coffee before bedtime, that's how wild I am.

Our bank statement is so LONG these days!

If i did check them, I'd do them online as I spent the money. But I'm guessing that people who constantly worry about mistakes of a few pence probably have a thing about paper statements, too.

No. Because I don't check the statements for trivia.

Neither do I. Wouldn't look at anything less than £100-200 or so. But I have to scan past all the small amounts to check the larger amounts. I'm not even really checking, but doing approximate budgeting and planning. Seeing whether we have spent more or less than usual that month and where it has gone. Boring stuff like that which I assume most people pay at least some attention to.

I know, I know, I'm shockingly irresponsible. Sometimes I go out in the cold without a coat on, too. On occasions I even have two cups of coffee before bedtime, that's how wild I am.

Do you mean to be so unpleasant?

If i did check them, I'd do them online as I spent the money. But I'm guessing that people who constantly worry about mistakes of a few pence probably have a thing about paper statements, too.

We don't get paper statements. And I don't worry about a few pence. Which is why I prefer not to see them on my ONLINE bank statement. I imagine that (some) people who do worry about a few pence like paying by card so they can see every transaction on their statements. I don't!

"Why would I check small transactions on a statement? This is always at the root of these sorts of futile debates:"

Why wouldn't you?

Not everyone is as well off as you, and they want to see what they are spending their money on.

I always check every transaction on my bank statement. I thought everyone did

Wouldn't look at anything less than £100-200 or so.

All these conversations prove is that there little as fascinating as the way in which other people manage their money, but that everyone assumes their way (which is often their parents' way) is the only way and that therefore everyone who does something different is not only wrong but foolish and probably immoral.

I couldn't care less how other people run their finances. I don't particularly care how shops do theirs either, up until the point that they start complaining that we should all be using cash because it suits them better.

Wittering on about the evils of debit cards is the 21st century equivalent of people wittering on about the evils of direct debits in the late 20th century. If you don't want to do it, fine, don't do it. But the consequences of that are yours to own.

I check everything but i cant see how card would make it harder. With cash I have to keep a separate record of what I've spent, written or mental. Online banking shows all transactions which I like.

I check all mine as I go along - I have a budgeting app that I reconcile against my online bank statements every few days

We had a minimum card fee. We replaced it with a $1 surcharge on transactions less than $10 (free for above).
People whinged about that, so we increased our prices by 5% across 90% of our products...
Nobody moans anymore.

everyone assumes their way (which is often their parents' way) is the only way

Really not sure why I am continuing to engage here, but this is really quite ironic. I think that the only posts on this thread that stand out as implying that their way is the superior way, and that everyone else is old-fashioned, stupid, and concerned with trivia are yours.

Who is "wittering" about "evils"???

And what on earth might be the consequences that we need to own? I really can't imagine.

Not everyone is as well off as you, and they want to see what they are spending their money on.

I know what I spend my money on. After all, I spent it. I place the risk of fraudulent transactions not detected by the bank, and not large enough to be noticeable because the balance is wildly off, as being low enough that I can ignore it. What extra information would I get from looking at the statements?

I always check every transaction on my bank statement. I thought everyone did

Nope. I didn't use to fill in cheque stubs, and I didn't keep the carbon copy of three-part credit-card slips, either. How long is all this checking taking you? A hour a month? Do you reconcile the transactions with the carefully filed paper receipt? That time is worth over a hundred quid a year at minimum wage, so perhaps six grand over your adult life. Do you reckon you're making that back?

And what on earth might be the consequences that we need to own? I really can't imagine.

There was a thread only last week about how terrible it is that someone who refuses to use direct debits has to pay more for their electricity.

"With cash I have to keep a separate record of what I've spent, written or mental."

Why would you need this? All I am interested in is how much comes out of the account whether it is a card transaction or a cash withdrawal. If I draw out some cash I don't feel I need to account for every penny I spend once I have it as cash in my purse.

If they were that brilliant, they wouldn't be small business owners.

Not everyone wants to run a huge business with several employees. Anway, I'm not thinking of cupcake sellers. I thinking of shops near me that have been open for several years and presumably make a reasonable living. They are certainly reasonably savvy when it comes to buying and selling so presumably aren't that stupid when it comes to banks.

I'd have just bought 4 bars...

Or 5, y'know...

Because for various reasons we budget quite closely lonicera, though fortunately don't have to do so to the penny, and find it desirable to be able to identify what's going where. Obviously you may not want or need to do so. Not particularly unusual for a person to need to know with an even highs degree of accuracy than we do though...

i hate cash because ...5. We are always running out of change

Which means a lot of people are using cash, and want to use cash. But I don't know why people hoard change, someone else can comment on that. Not so long ago (15 yrs?) some astonishing percentage of UK people did not have any kind of bank account. It feels weird we've become so reliant on plastic, so fast.

Some posters seem to be unable to think outside what is their "normal"

This is so me! I am so behind on the contactless revolution. Been out & about yesterday & today... paying in cash for everything. Need to get some more cash soon (alongside another errand).