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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to not want DS to go on a nursery trip in a coach with adult seatbelts?

81 replies

snowleopard · 09/05/2007 18:12

He's just under 2 and today I (along with another parent who was nearby) were asked to give consent to a day trip to a family play park thingy a good 30 miles away. The other mum asked how they would get there and it transpired in a big coach with normal adult seatbelts. The trip is for his group(aged 18 month-2 years) and the older groups who are 2, 3 and 4. Is this normal? I thought adult seatbelts were dangerous below a certain height? i said I would consider taking our child seat and fitting it into the coach using the seatbelt - wuld that be a good idea or would I be unreasonable to just not let him go?

The nursery have always been so good and careful, or so I thought - this has really upset me - but maybe IABU? I know city buses don't have seatbelts for example but they trundle slowly around city centres - and anyway if DS goes on one of those he's strapped into his buggy. And this is a big coach going on the bypass and A1...

OP posts:

Cloudhopper · 11/05/2007 11:37

True, luciemule. I did think as I got on the coach "I have a choice between taking the risk and telling the girls and the nursery staff that we are not going". I decided "What the hell - I remember rattling around the boot of my parents' estate car as a child".

Not saying that was right, but they did enjoy the day and thank goodness nothing did go wrong.

Original poster

snowleopard · 11/05/2007 11:46

FG, I really honestly and truly have no idea who you are and won't try to find out. I'm not a sociable nursery parent - I mean I smile and say hi but I know very few other parents at the nursery - I'm shy, awkward and just too busy.

I did once meet up with someone from a different board, it was a disaster (although to be fair i could tell she wasn't my type at all beforehand but didn't want to be rude!) I totally understand, you don't have to meet me or know who I am. It is very useful having no one on MN really know you.

And don't worry - I spill my guts on here and so does everyone, it's extraordinarily easy to do I find!

If you can tell me if you do end up saying no to the trip, just by posting on this thread, I'd be grateful but there's no obligation to do anything at all - and I promise I won't come on here starting threads like "OI frumpy, what do you think of the new climbing frame" etc.

OP posts:

Sari · 11/05/2007 11:52

No, you're not being at all unreasonable. I've just told dd's nursery I don't want her (19 months) to go on their trip this year. It's about 1.5 - 2 hrs away, an all day trip to the seaside and they're going by coach. Normally parents go but if you can't and it's a day your child is meant to be at nursery a member of staff will take him/her. I can't go (don't want to anyway!)but there is no way I'm letting her go off on a coach like that. Apart from the safety aspect, I think she would find it exhausting and it's just too much and unnecessary for children that age.

Anyway, the nursery is letting me swap her days around that week so it's not a problem for us. But I do think they're ridiculous even to consider such a trip for under 3s.

frumpygrumpy · 11/05/2007 13:00

thanks SL

I will post on here about the trip.

Also, I'll be the one at nursery who is walking about with a bag on her head or else the one grinning like a fool at everyone I pass

Lovecat · 11/05/2007 14:20

We've just had a letter from dd's nursery saying they're going on a trip to a wildlife park in the summer - I've had exactly the same concern as the OP re. transport, and haven't been able to get a coherent answer from the nursery staff (manager is away on hols) - YANBU, this bothers me loads - no way will dd stay still in a normal seatbelt, she is v. wriggly and even with me sitting next to her, it would be a nightmare.

If I don't get a satisfactory answer I'm going to drive her there & back myself as I don't want her to miss out (and deduct the cost of transport from the outing!).

frumpygrumpy · 17/05/2007 15:46

Hi SL, sorry not to have posted. I haven't been able to get hold of my DDs keyworker, every time I am in, she isn't, and I wanted to take it up with her in the first instance.

Either way, DP and I have agreed that neither of us are overly happy about the trip and I am intending letting them know that I would rather she doesn't go. They might feel I am spoiling fun but when I leave my child at nursery I like to feel I know precisely where that child is. It makes me feel secure, particularly in this modern world of weirdos that steal children. Thats what I'm paying for and thats what I feel happiest with. When I get to have the conversation I'll let you know how it goes.........

Have you decided anymore yourself?

kslatts · 17/05/2007 16:04

I've not really heard of nursery children of that age going on daytrips a long coach drive away before.

I would only let my dc go if you were able to take his car seat.

frumpygrumpy · 25/05/2007 14:55

Hi snowleopard, what did you decide? Has your trip been changed? Ours now seems to be the zoo........

Original poster

snowleopard · 25/05/2007 15:07

Hi FG sorry have only just seen this thread has been posted on again and missed your earlier post. I haven't heard anything about the zoo! (Though I'd be surprised if they've changed it for your DD's group and not for the younger ones).

DP and I are quite sure that we don't want DS to go in the coach and have said so (as I know has at least one other parent) - and I have talked to the owners about it too. Their concern mainly seemed to be whether or not it was legal as opposed to whether it was actually safe, but I did find them understanding.

If the zoo thing is also in a coach that'll be another no - anyway we go to the zoo all the time. But I will be glad if the concerns some of us have raised have made them rethink the whole policy.

OP posts:

bobbysmum07 · 26/05/2007 17:17

It's not illegal for children to travel in a minibus or coach without a booster or carseat. In fact, if they did travel on a minibus/coach in a booster/carseat it would proably be a lot more dangerous as they simply do not fit properly.

I actually queried this with the DVLA (I own a nursery. We were taking the children on a trip and could not get the booster seats to fit onto the seats of the coach), and was told that yes, it is a problem - car/booster seats are not designed for use on a coach or minibus and do not fit. Because of this, it is not illegal for children to travel on a coach or minibus without them.

Original poster

snowleopard · 26/05/2007 19:58

Thanks bobbysmum. I I know it's not illegal as I researched it too, but it does seem to be unsafe - the coach has 3-point adult seatbelts which are dangerous for a young child, as in a sudden stop they are across the child's throat. Also, it is possible to fit child seats on some coaches if they have full seatbelts (though not if they have lap belts).

The thing is though, the reason coaches are exempt from the law is just practicality - it would put coach comapnies out of business if they all had to use child seats/proper seatbelts overnight. But it is still dangerous and that's why I'm worried. Apart from the throat issue, DS could easily climb out of a normal seatbelt and he's too young to understand why he shouldn't.

OP posts:

bobbysmum07 · 26/05/2007 20:13

I see your point about litle ones being able to climb out easily and agree that it isn't safe. But it isn't so much the fact that some coaches use lapbelts that make them unsuitable for booster or carseats. It's the actual size of the seats on the buses themselves - they're not wide enough to accomodate most booster/carseats.

I know that some nurseries take little ones (babies even) out on trips regularly and use booster or carseats. I don't know how they do it safely though as I can assure you they don't fit. The guy from the DVLA was well aware of this as well.

adath · 26/05/2007 20:59

I know this thread is from ages ago but I have only just read it and it is like a converstaion I had with a friend of mine last week. Our DC's are at different school nurseries and her nursery were taking the children out for a trip and nobody (apart from me) could understand why she was not letting them go, if I was not going with DD on her summer trip she would not be going wither and she is just over 3 and half.
She did go on a coach with the class 4 miles up the road to the fire station but the other trip is farther away and on a main very bad road there is no way she would be going without me.

LynetteScavo · 26/05/2007 21:21

DS2's pre-school trip will require an adult to accompany him. As I will have to take DD (20 months)with me, I'll be driving us in our car. I will explain to the nursery manager what I'm doing, and try not to care if people think I'm neurotic.

bobbysmum07 · 26/05/2007 21:33

Can't understand the logic of taking tiny children (under 2's) on coach trips anyway. What do they gain from it?

Original poster

snowleopard · 26/05/2007 22:12

I know bm, it's daft. They will just be constantly herding them around. I'm sure DS gets much more out of trips when he goes with us as a family.

OP posts:

TenaLady · 26/05/2007 22:25

Let me tell you a little story or two.

Being an over protective mum myself, I will not let my ds go on any trips by coach unless I am assisting.

The last three trips I have witnessed, coach pulling on to hard shoulder of motorway whilst his mate following catches up!

The rear emergency door (no teachers at the back of the coach) opening twice as we are travelling up the motorway!

Seat belts that didnt work,thankfully we didnt have a full coach so they all got a seat belt that worked!

So think on when you let your kids get ferried off into the sunset. Nobody looks after then the way that you would.

Original poster

snowleopard · 27/05/2007 22:00

Thanks Tenalady! It's so reassuring that I can find on MN that I'm not alone in thinking like this.

OP posts:

frumpygrumpy · 29/05/2007 17:36

SL, just to update you, our trip is the zoo and I have been asked if I will accompany the group I'm mulling it. Now, let me think, a big pile of children, some being potty trained, at the zoo, giving up my free day, paying for it......... Is your trip now the zoo? Will you go? I might if you might.......

chocolateteapot · 29/05/2007 17:59

I'm very late to this thread but have decided after witnessing something in our local farm that I would not let a child of mine who is pre-school age go unaccompanied, regardless of the seating arrangements on the coach. I took DS to the playground up the road last week and the kindergarten from the local prep school were there. When we arrived there were about 25 children and 2 adults, the rest had buggered off for a cup of coffee. There is a big unfenced pond not far from the play area which is fenced but the catch is broken at the moment. The gate was wide open and I really don't think the two women would have had a clue if one of the children had wandered out of the play area as they were both watching children on the big climbing frame bit and couldn't see what the rest were up to.

After about 15 minutes the rest of the staff, about another 5, came back with coffee. Finally someone did something to sort out the gate and the children were properly supervised.

Original poster

snowleopard · 29/05/2007 21:42

FG, I still haven't heard a thing about it - and DS is off for the rest of the week as we have visitirs, so the first time I could hear of it is if they tell me on Monday 4, 2 days before the trip. Perhaps because I've said no to the coach, they think I wouldn't be interested anyway? I think it's great that they've made this change (though a pain for you to miss work if you do) and would want to hear about it... maybe I should ask them? I also would go if you would.

OP posts:

dinny · 29/05/2007 21:45

dd and her class had their first school trip on Friday (reception) and had SUCH a good time, I am so glad I let her go. she was so excited she got dressed at 4am, lol!

teachers and assistants took them, parents weren't allowed - the seat belts were described as "age-appropriate".

suppose it depends if you trust the school staff going - i did/do.

bookwormmum · 29/05/2007 22:04

I was apprehensive when my dd had a school trip at 5 to a farm 30 miles away. This was before the rules came in about booster seats were necessary for children up to a certain height or age 11 so the children just wore the adult belts even though my dd still sat in a booster seat in our family cars. I threatened my two charges with death and destruction if they attempted to take their belts off before being instructed to and it was ok but for a 2-year old on a coach, I'd be much more apprehensive. If in doubt don't let him go - the nursery may mock your caution but he's your child at the end of the day.

frumpygrumpy · 30/05/2007 16:56

I got a consent form to fill in last week which was the first I heard about the change and no-one actually said anything, the form just came home when my DP did the pick up. There is one other mum from our group who was asked to come. I'm sure your group must be coming too as they told me the family park was working out at £17 per child which they felt was too expensive. Therefore I can't imagine they'd continue at the family park with less children

I guess you could just ask whether the trip is still on and ask if they need helpers.

Otherwise, you can tie a yellow balloon to your DS and I will be sure I stick like glue to him all day

frumpygrumpy · 05/06/2007 19:15

Just to say I'll be on the trip tomorrow, not sure if you are........we should have a secret code, how about "niceearringtheymustbeTiffany"

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