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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to not want DS to go on a nursery trip in a coach with adult seatbelts?

81 replies

snowleopard · 09/05/2007 18:12

He's just under 2 and today I (along with another parent who was nearby) were asked to give consent to a day trip to a family play park thingy a good 30 miles away. The other mum asked how they would get there and it transpired in a big coach with normal adult seatbelts. The trip is for his group(aged 18 month-2 years) and the older groups who are 2, 3 and 4. Is this normal? I thought adult seatbelts were dangerous below a certain height? i said I would consider taking our child seat and fitting it into the coach using the seatbelt - wuld that be a good idea or would I be unreasonable to just not let him go?

The nursery have always been so good and careful, or so I thought - this has really upset me - but maybe IABU? I know city buses don't have seatbelts for example but they trundle slowly around city centres - and anyway if DS goes on one of those he's strapped into his buggy. And this is a big coach going on the bypass and A1...

OP posts:

TheBlonde · 09/05/2007 20:40

You could just ask the nursery manager - mine told me there would be seat belts (they were proper ones not lap belts)

RGPargy · 09/05/2007 21:14

YANBU!!!!! There's no way i'd let my DC in any moving vehicle without the appropriate car seat! Take him there yourself if you have to! Deffo dont let him go on a coach like that tho!

anniebear · 09/05/2007 21:21

I was the only one at my DD's pre school to go back and get my car seat if I got told they were going out

They had adjustable belts so it sat on dd's shoulder, but they just sat on the adult seats, but she was only 2 and a half, she wouldn't have had th weight to have made the seat belt lock in a crash

I don't know how they got away with it

Original poster

snowleopard · 11/05/2007 09:56

OK I have said to the nursery that I'm not comfortable with it and don't want him to go.

To their credit they do do some research; the seatbelts are 3-point sealtbelts for adults and it is the company they always use who are used to kids' trips; they also said they phoned some government toofice to check it was not illegal.

BUT the nursery manager was saying that it was fine because they've been doing it for years and never had a problem, and also saying how exciting it is for them all and how they all love it. I feel a bit that they're making me out to be a killjoy and spoiling DS's fun and that why would I have a problem if it's always been fine before? Well of course it has, because they haven't had a crash before! It is what would happen in a crash or sudden stop that concerns me, especially as I know DS could easily wriggle out of the seatbelt. Plus she said well there would be a staff member next to each child - well that's not mathematically possible even if the ratio is 2:1 - some double seats would have to be 2 toddlers together (I didn't get into this argument, just left it).

Although of course they said it's my decision, and it's OK for DS to stay at nursery that day, I feel like they're not taking me seriously and tbh the whole thing worries me, I think it's irresponsible and dangerous in general, not just for DS. Should I write to the owners?

This has really knicked my confidence as the nursery has always been so great and it's so hard to tell if I'm just and over-anxious first-time parent - even tough so many of you have kindly told me IANBU!

OP posts:

Original poster

snowleopard · 11/05/2007 09:57

did do some research... why can't I type

OP posts:

misdee · 11/05/2007 10:04

whats ths alternative, coach with no seat belts?

Hulababy · 11/05/2007 10:12

If they are 3 point seat belts can you not provide car seats t be used?

misdee · 11/05/2007 10:14

yes if its a full seat belt then why not use his car seat?

haggisaggis · 11/05/2007 10:22

When my children's nursery does trips they hire a coach with 3 point seat belts and ask you to bring in your child's car seat. ds went on a trip when he was just 2 to teh safari park in this way. THey had a great time - very good ratio adults / kids - so it can be done safely.

luciemule · 11/05/2007 10:30

I posted a thread on this very topic last summer and then contacted the DTR for advice. They said that a child seat shouldn't be fitted with just a lapbelt, as on most coaches and so I just drove DD myself and met them there. Nobody else did that and instead they just all let their kids go without a car seat and I guess used the lap belts! I know coach accidents are rare compared to car, but I couldn't face her going and just wearing a lap belt at age 4. If it's only 30 miles, could you drive and meet them there (offering to help out as well perhaps?).
The thing with public transport is that the law has loopholes when it comes to children and car seats. I think they should provide 3 point belts on all coaches so as to allow proper child seats to be used but DTR said it wold be impossible.

Original poster

snowleopard · 11/05/2007 10:49

Thanks, sorry i didn't explain that fully - it won't be the same coach taking them as coming back, so the car seat would have to be taken out, stored somewhere then re-fitted (not necessarily correctly) by the staff so that's not really an option here.

I now have talked to Brake, the road safety charity and they agree with me but say the law is vague - BUT it's being revised and updated very soon so I hope this isn't going to keep being a problem.

I could drive him there myself and collect him; I'll consider that. I did suggest to the nursery if they have big day trips couldn't parents be invited; I also told her I knew this happened with sme other nurseries and also that some nurseries do coach trips but ask everyone to bring the proper child seats. She kind of made a face and said she'd never heard of anything like that.

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luciemule · 11/05/2007 10:54

Hmmmm- I was also made to feel stupid/guilty for even mentioning the car seat issue and they said that no-one lese had complained. I said I wasn't complaining, just concerned for her safety!

Cloudhopper · 11/05/2007 10:58

I went on a coach trip with dd1(3 1/2yo) and dd2(14 months) and only when we got on the coach and I saw other parents with car seats did I think about it.

The other parents seemed to be able to get the car seats fitted into the lap belts quite happily, and the advantage for younger children (less than 2) was that they didn't wriggle about as much and could sleep comfortably. The bigger children (over 2) seemed reasonably happy in the lap belts.

Meanwhile I was quite happy with dd1 at 3 1/2 being strapped in on the lap belt. She sat nicely and was comfortable. Dd2 at 14 months was very different. She looked ridiculous strapped into the lap belt and spent the whole journey wriggling about and trying (usually successfully) to climb out.

Having not given it much thought beforehand I just got on with it and tried to make the best of it. We did survive, and the journey back was no mean feat with the little one as it lasted 2 1/2 hours.

Original poster

snowleopard · 11/05/2007 11:02

It is infuriating when they do that - they should just listen and consider that it might be possible to make improvements. OK you are an anxious parent - but many nursery staff don't know how it feels to be a parent at all. Sometimes you get the feeling that they think their job is not to listen, but to fend off your concerns with counter-arguments until you shut up.

This is why I'd like to take it up with the owners (who are very nice and often on-site - and they are parents). I just want to be able to discuss my worries and talk about how things might be made better, without being made to feel like I'm a bit of a nutter/being unkind to DS.

Also I am so f*ing reasonable with them most of the time - I think they're great, I rarely make a fuss, I see other parents getting a steam up about what the children are eating or them having dirty clothes or whatever and I'm not like that at all, I've always been easy-going. So they should listen to me when I have a genuine concern.

Rant, rant... this has really got to me and I could go on all day - will stop now honest!

OP posts:

luciemule · 11/05/2007 11:03

Yes Cloudhopper but if you'd had an accident, your DCs would have either hurt their pelvis or flown out of seats! Not critisising you but just think the gvt should do more about child safety on public transport.

Original poster

snowleopard · 11/05/2007 11:04

(That was a reply to luciemule btw - thanks for your post CH!)

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frumpygrumpy · 11/05/2007 11:06

snowleopard, this sounds exactly like the nursery we use, are you in Edinburgh by chance? I won't make contact with you and I like to remain anonymous but curious.....

I haven't decided whether my dd will go on the trip for the same bus reason and also because I just don't entirely feel happy about the whole thing. Its a big, tiring day and its hard enough when we do this kind of thing as a family let alone with a massive number of children.

I have older children too and felt the same when they were little. I let one of my other children do a big nursery trip when age 4 and I felt comfortable with that.

Go with your instinct, you'll feel happier.

luciemule · 11/05/2007 11:08

Why not just go there for a day with your family and take DC out of nursery that day?

OrmIrian · 11/05/2007 11:12

I don't know about the seat belts issue - there weren't any on coaches until a few years ago. I guess though that I'd be happier though with his own car-seat in the coach.

But I think the trip sounds crazy! I wouldn't want my 2 yr old going that far away with anyone but my parents TBH. How many adults will there have to be to keep control of a coachload of LOs. Rather them (mursery staff I mean) than me!

Original poster

snowleopard · 11/05/2007 11:15

Hi frumpygrumpy, yes I am in Edinburgh, I'm not sure about the politics/ethics of naming this nursery but is it a large detached house in SW Edinburgh, just near to a big school and is the trip on June 6th?

If we think we are at the same nursery, what age is your DD and is she in the youngest group (apart from the babies) - if so she'll be with my DS and we may actually know each other already...

I also like to remain anonymous so I appreciate your approach - so there's no need to answer this if you don't want to take it any further. But if we do know each other it might be useful to know I'm not the only one feeling like this when I talk to them.

I also share your worries about the big group day out. It just seems too much for such little ones. And I agree with you about instinct. I can away this morning after talking to the manager, feeling browbeaten but I said to myself "I know I'm right about this."

OP posts:

Original poster

snowleopard · 11/05/2007 11:19

Luciemule, I could but it means losing a day of work, I'm self-employed and don't get paid for days off. However I would like to take him on a trip there another day, perhaps with DP so he does get to go anyway.

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frumpygrumpy · 11/05/2007 11:22

It is the same one

NOW SOMEONE KNOWS ME IN RL!!!!!!!! OMG, OMG, OMG, all my secrets laid bare and blown wide open

FWIW, I'm not keen on these trips either until children are older. I think at this age a little picnic in the park would be adventure enough. My dd is upstairs, one age room up from yours I think.

I haven't yet chatted to my DP about it but my instinct was no.

RGPargy · 11/05/2007 11:26

Snowleopard - you are DEFFO right about this!! I'd do what Luciemule suggested and take your LO out of nursery for the day and drive him there yourself in comfort and safety!

Original poster

snowleopard · 11/05/2007 11:26

FG I feel the same as you!!! I am not an MNer who knows other MNers in RL, I don't have a profile or post photos, I need to be pretty much anonymous here so I can slag off my relatives in peace etc.

So I won't make the link with you in RL if that's not what you want. We can just pretend it never happened... although I'm happy to make the connection in RL if you do want to.

About the trip though, it would be great if you could let me know on here if you decide against it - just so I know it isn't just me.

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frumpygrumpy · 11/05/2007 11:34

It will not be difficult to work out who I am

I'm not sure I am ready to make RL connections, MN is my sounding board and has been/can be a lifeline. I tend to post my life and soul on here thinking no-one will ever know I also slag off my relatives, I believe one has to do it somewhere.

The girls on my regular thread will wet themselves when I tell them this. They have long wanted me to meet up and I resist and resist and resist

Anyway, I will make a decision this weekend and let you know. I don't want them to feel I don't trust them but my heart isn't really in it.

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