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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

DH mum on end of life pathway is he being unreasonable to not go to work

70 replies

Generallyok · 27/03/2018 14:56

DH's mum has been very poorly with dementia for years. Has reached critical point where can't swallow now so now being nursed by McMillan. DH 200 miles away but has made journey to be with her. He has called work to let them know but they want to know how long he will be off. There is no definite answer but she isn't eating or really drinking much now. Is he being unreasonable to wait until she passes away or should he be at work. He is worried about his job.

OP posts:

Ilovelblue · 27/03/2018 15:33

I had a similar situation with my Mum. I had rung work and they told me not to worry about a thing and to take whatever time I needed. After she died, I had a week's compassionate leave and was then signed off work for another two weeks. The company was always pretty good in these circumstances (though not always on other issues). I felt fortunate but would have stayed with her regardless of whether or not they supported me.

If your husband's boss is being difficult, I just hope that he feels differently if/when he experiences the death of a close family member. Not the best way to keep your employees happy.

I feel for you both.

ShatnersWig · 27/03/2018 15:34

Ninky said I have experience caring for elderly and can say that if this is the case then she will only have a matter of days

I'm a bit concerned about that, and I hate to doubt someone who said that who says they have experience in caring for the elderly. My aged grandmother went into hospital last year and having had a stroke decided to refuse any treatment. She refused to eat or drink. It took over three weeks before she died. I concur with Jane in that it could be a matter of days but it could actually be a couple of weeks if there are no other complications or issues to hasten things along.

Scabetty · 27/03/2018 15:36

I think she won’t last a week from experience with df and mil. If course he should be with her. DH stayed in Scotland for the week his mum was dying. Made his grieving bearable as he knew he had done everything to show his love. He is self employed though so just paid himself as usual.

Tiredmum100 · 27/03/2018 15:38

In my experience it could be days but it could be weeks. We were involved with someone end of life who went on for about a month. He needs to see what his work place can offer, compassionate leave etc then decide what he wants to do. All the best to you both.

52FestiveRoad · 27/03/2018 15:41

My mum lasted about a week like this. I think your DH needs to be with her, work should not be making it difficult for him to do that.

MysweetAudrina · 27/03/2018 15:42

My dh's Dad lasted 10 days after they stopped giving him fluids. There is really no set time. It's like birth and can not really be planned for as everyone is different.

crunchymint · 27/03/2018 15:43

It depends if she only has days to live or not. My FIL has been on end of life pathway for 5 months now. DP would have been sacked if he had not gone into work when his father was placed on this.

Reallycantbebothered · 27/03/2018 15:45

Compassionate leave where I work is only after someone has died...( and then it's only for 5days max if it's a close family member ) he could use holiday leave or ask for unpaid leave but notice is usually required for this
I would go to GP and ask to be signed off work ....GP will know how to word it

savingitupforfridaynight · 27/03/2018 15:48

yes, i would go to the GP because whilst work should be supporting him, they clearly want a definite date but dying isn't a definite process. Sick notes, otoh, do have clear return dates and can be renewed.

Sympathies - every experience is individual, i had a relative recently in the last stage hang on for the best part of 2 weeks somehow.

AnnaMagnani · 27/03/2018 15:49

You need to be clear about what 'End of Life' means. Nobody should be saying pathway anymore for starters.

Are they meaning 'last year of life' - have decided no more investigations, hospital admissions, symptom control only? - In which case obviously you can't stay off work, it could be ages.

Or 'Last days of life' - actively dying now, likely in the next few days.

As you can see from this thread, people use the same words to mean different things which is confusing.

HollyBayTree · 27/03/2018 15:49

Some employers - usually the larger ones - are reasonable. Some frankly, are not.

Eg DBILs employer only allows 3 days for death of a spouse thereafter it is back to work. They don't even offer the unpaid option.

Because I've always worked for very large corporations/public services you've always been able to take as much as you like, and its fully paid. Small/private business probably would not be as accomodating. They would have the faff of training agency staff, paying agency fees etc.

YimminiYoudar · 27/03/2018 15:49

Fuck his employers. Even in a precarious employment market a lost job can be replaced. He will never have another mum or another other chance to be there for her during her last days on earth. He can and should prioritise his mum.

if it's a reasonable sized company there should be a written policy on compassionate leave.

SirVixofVixHall · 27/03/2018 15:50

The Macmillan nurse will have a good idea of how long your MIL is likely to live . With my Mum they were clear and accurate. So sorry, it is really hard to go through. He might want to spend as much time with her as possible, if she is put on a driver then she will be unconscious, so time spent with her before that happens is important. Again the nurse can advise you. The ability to swallow goes, and then it is usually only a few days before someone dies.

frami · 27/03/2018 15:51

My father was supposed to be unable to swallow so my mother took him home to die. Officially you are told death will take place within a week, my sister who is a geriatric nurse of over 20 years practice told us it was likely to take a lot longer. When challenged the end of life team at the hospital admitted that this was so. As it happened, when back at his own home we discovered that my father could swallow, albeit very slowly. He lived another 2 years.

soupforbrains · 27/03/2018 15:51

Having helped a good friend through this I would suggest that he tells HR/manager that while he can't be sure of how long he will be off, given the circumstances, he expects it to be at least a week as he will require some time off after she has passed away to make the necessary arrangements. ASK HR how he should manage staying in touch with them about it and how the time off will be booked i.e. annual leave Vs compassionate.

It is their job to assist both managers and staff, I'm sure the manager has asked because he wants to know if he should look at getting a temp in or whether it is not worth it. the HR team will be in the best position though to give your Husband advice on how they/the company can support him through this.

inamechangedforthispost · 27/03/2018 15:55

This time is very special. Could he ask work for some unpaid leave? When my DH was in this position work couldn't have been kinder. They allowed him as much time as he wanted.

Is there an HR department that he could speak to about options?

crunchymint · 27/03/2018 15:56

Anna We were told my FIl was on an end of life pathway and that means he is expected to live less than a year.

But yes OP, you need to get clarity of what this means. Days or even a few weeks, is very different from months. If she is still eating and drinking, she is still swallowing, although with difficulty. I nursed someone like this who could only eat mushed or very soft food and she lived for 9 months like that. So no one can tell you anything here, you need to speak to the people involved in her care.

orangesmartieseggs · 27/03/2018 15:59

It's not sick leave, he isn't sick. Please don't put your GP in a difficult position by asking them to sign a fraudulent sick note. He needs to take compassionate or annual leave - thinking of you and him OP.

Of course he can ask for a sick note. His mum is dying and his mental health is suffering because he's worried about his job. Mental health/stress/grief are perfectly valid reasons to visit your GP and get help, be that in the form of counselling, medication or leave from work.

Holycrapwhatnow · 27/03/2018 16:03

Why all the hating on his employer? If someone working for me was in this situation I'd be very happy for them to take leave or be signed off, but I would also ask them if they had any idea of how long they expect to be off, because my experience with my grandmother was that it too nearly 3 weeks - and while we could cover for that, it would need some shuffling around to avoid burdening the rest of the team, many of whom have caring responsibilities and can't just stay late indefinitely, or to let down our clients.

So sorry to hear your DH is in this position, and hope things are as peaceful as possible.

crunchymint · 27/03/2018 16:04

GPs sign sick notes for things like this all the time.

AnotherMIL · 27/03/2018 16:05

Fraudulent sick leave? WTF?

If someone is so affected by the near death of a loved one that he is unable to work then how is that fraudulent?

crunchymint · 27/03/2018 16:05

And IME it is the Local Authority district nurses who get involved when someone is very close to death.

gussyfinknottle · 27/03/2018 16:14

Unpaid leave seems like the "best" option. I've been through this recently and unpaid leave if there is no annual leave option is the way to go.
Keeps it simple. In a complicated and distressing time.
Love to both of you from one who's been there.

frami · 27/03/2018 16:15

Crunchymint your comment about eating mushed food this was the case with my father and it was the district nurse was involved in his care and who confirmed that he was still swallowing.
OP your DH needs to be prepared to take a lot of time off and that employers etc will be understanding up to a point. I was in similar position to him. 400 miles away from DF (sea or plane journey required), lots of guilt and emotional turmoil. I sincerely hope this is not the case for you but be aware it is a possibility.

crunchymint · 27/03/2018 16:20

Be aware that if it is a lot of time off, he could lose his job.

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