To suggest that Fathers are currently, very rarely ever equally responsible for their children?

[dated1988]

I realise it might be controversial, but the title speaks for itself.

My experiences suggest they are not. Maybe I'm unlucky within my social circles and life experiences but the bulk of parenting work I have seen is taken on by the mother. Yet in courts when separating, fathers push for equal contact time as they are "just as much of a parent". But were they at 50% of the doctors appointments for that child? Taking 50% of school holidays? And even when they do, is that because they have taken it upon themselves, or have they let the mother of their children do the organising, the planning, the worrying etc.

I know there are some fabulous exceptions to this rule, but isn't the fact they are exceptions part of the problem? Why is it that 50% (or more) dads are seen as something rare and celebrated, when mothers (by far and large) do that all the time?

Happy to hear stories of fathers who are equally responsible by the way, prove me wrong, because I'd like to think there is better out there than I have experienced!

My view on fathers is different

My brother was a single dad from when my nephew was 3 days old as his mum didn’t want him and too late for an abortion. The mother has never seen my nephew since she left, never provided any care or any maintenance.

Three of my friends dh are stay at home dads and so they obviously do the bulk of childcare.

I am a stay home Mum by choice as I didn’t want to return to my business until the dc are at school, DH wanted to stay home too and it did cause a little argument but in the end dh took 3 months off work after each dc and does his equal share before/after work and weekends. We’ve got 3 dc under 3 so me and dh both have no choice but to pull our weight or we’d never survive!

Mostly in my social circle people do appear to be equal parents and I think times have changed a lot and dad’s aren’t praised so much now for being a parent as they would of been in times gone by.

YANBU. Of course you're not.

I'm surprised you feel the need to ask, tbh, it's blindingly obvious.

There is obviously are growing minority of fathers who really do do 50% of childcare and another group who don't do as much as their partners but do a lot more than their fathers would have done.

But yes, in the vast majority of cases, the women have the lion's share of childcare responsibilities, on top of a far greater proportion of other domestic chores and the "mental load" of things like doctor's appointments, homework, school-related activities, playdates etc. Even the most progressive of fathers generally have to be prompted on doing this stuff. And let's not forget a majority of the women doing all of this are now working outside the home on top of all this.

It takes a long time to change ingrained societal habits and expectations, particularly when you are asking a group of people with thousands of years worth of privilege, to give up that privilege voluntarily. We have made a lot of progress in the past 50 years or so. But until we stop commenting on what a "hands on" father men are, as if the ability to change a nappy or organise a playdate were noteworthy or worthy of standout praise, we still have a long way to go.

DS is only 8 months but I'd say DH and I are completely 50/50. Obviously when he's at work and I'm on mat leave it's just me, but when he's home totally shared. He also shares the mental load 50%. I've had a number of days/evenings out with friends and he's been more than happy to hold the fort without needing instructions from me. When I go back to work next month DH will have DS on his own for his days off if they fall in the week.

However, I do think I engineered this. At the start I remember being asked "where do we keep his sleepsuits" or "are we running low on nappies" but I would just reply - "you go find them" or "you go look" or just a simple don't know! Sounds confrontational but I explained to him I wanted us to be 50/50 and he was going to have to use initiative as I wasn't going to tell him how to look after our son.

My experience is where both parents work similar hours it really is 50/50. It is also my experience that more women than men go part time or become sah. In these circumstances mum does more than dads. The issue I find is schools/doctors etc always assume mum is responsible, ie school will repeatedly rung me but never DH

YANBU to say that women are currently the main carer in the vast majority of cases.

But I think YABU to say that means fathers shouldn't have similar or equal contact time in the event of a divorce (as long as this is in the best interests of the child too). I have every respect for fathers who push for this. I do a lot more parenting than DH, because I work part time and he works full time, but he's a great dad and has an amazing bond with our DC. If we split (not on the cards as far as I know!) I wouldn't want either him or the DC to lose out on that

I think you're, sadly, right.

My DH and I have managed to split things pretty evenly over the past 5 years (our DD has just turned 5, DS is 3).

When DD was a baby, DH took care of her 4.5 days/week while I worked (freelance) -- we were both miffed at her 10 month appt with the health visitor where questions about DD were repeatedly directed to me, despite both of us clearly explaining that DH would know better as he was around her much more!

Since then, we've gone through lots of variations on how much childcare we each do. Currently, I do more, because DH in his final year of a full-time PhD, plus doing a bit of teaching (and job applications). Come October, when he finishes, if he's not found work or if he has part time work, we may well be in a position where he does more again.

This should, I feel, be pretty normal.

Sadly, all my experience at the school gates, at toddler groups, etc, suggests it really isn't, and that the majority of the time (80%+), it's the mother doing substantially more of the childcare.

I'm divorced and do 90% of everything when it comes to childcare. Exh has DS overnight a couple of times a month but it's always me that has to take time off work if DS is sick, etc.

As long as women carry and give birth to children I imagine they will always be the default primary caregiver .

I know one divorced couple that genuinely do 50/50 but they are propped up a lot by the grandmother who does all the school pick ups and homework. So that’s still only 30% Dad input. Make of that what you will.

Me and my DH were both raised mainly by are fathers, our mothers are alive and had the means to look after us just didnt want to.
My exs partner got got main custody of their daughter despite being completely unable to look after her, he got to see her every other weekends and it took 4 years of her being neglected and of him fighting to get her back before anyone listened and gave him full custody, she now had no contact with her mother.
Me and DH are completely equal in parenting our children, if we broke up I would want him to have 50/50 access for their sake, he would want the same.
I would never have children with someone who I wouldnt trust to look after my chidlren 50% of the time, maybe thats the problem?

Topical for me today. YANBU.

It's always nice to hear stories when the opposite is true, but realistically as you said, it's not the norm. I have always been the default parent to all of my children, and when the father can't or won't step in, the responsibility always comes back to me.

Mental Load, physical childcare...all of it is ultimately my job, and whilst they contribute to it, they certainly do not hold the same level of "buck stops here" responsibility I do.

And yes, fathers are definitely BU when they go to court having never been truly equally responsible, and assert their equal parenting rights. If it's good enough for you now you've separated, it should be have been good enough for you when you were together and your child needed someone to take them to immunisations.

I'd say DH is better than average but he doesn't think! I went to a one hour medical appointment yesterday lunchtime and then had an hour's walk home. He didn't feed the kids and I didn't find out this key fact until they'd started hitting each other with sticks in the park. It was almost 3pm. Words were had.

I've had both with my first partner it was literally 90% me 10% him and sadly has dwindled even less. He openly admits he wasn't ready to be a parent.
But second partner is very hands on with both children.

I think it comes on a person to person stand. Some dad's are more hands on and others are not

I don't think it's controversial that mothers usually do more. I don't think it follows from that that fathers should have less than 50% of time after divorce. (At that point, they may have to up their game.)

It kind of makes sense for one person to specialise in certain tasks, it's often less efficient if you make a task a two-person job. (It creates duplication of effort and a need for communication between them.) I suspect most mothers would prefer to be the one person when it comes to child issues, though of course with power to delegate as many hours as possible of the more tedious parts of the workload to the assistant parent.

Probably in general yeah (well definitely actually) I do think my DH takes proper responsibility though as does my brother with his children which is good to see. I do think the tide is turning and we're getting there though which is good, I mean look how much things have changed in only a generation.

So long as the parents and kids are happy, who cares who does what? Some families decide one person will do most of the childcare (be a stay at home parent or work part time.) Why is that not a valid choice?

When you divorce obviously you reassess everything.

You could flip it and ask "why are the majority of part time jobs held by women, why is it the men who have to work more hours outside the home?"

I do actually agree that it is disgracefully easy for men to walk away from childcare responsibilities but likewise you rarely hear of a woman offering 50/50 access post separation even if the father has been fully involved up to that point. In fact there is a thread running right now where a lady wants to leave her partner who is a SAHD and some posters are advising her to change her working hours so she can become primary carer after they separate.

The attitudes of society/the workplace as a whole towards child rearing needs to change.

I can whole heartedly say it's 50/50 in our house. I do think things are changing though and that men are doing more and more. I think that's a generation thing now, especially because more households have both parents working.
My parents were always 50/50 too which I think probably shaped what I thought was acceptable in a relationship iyswim?
My FIL on the otherhand did bugger all at home which has made my husband see what not to do.

OH is part time and does more childcare while I'm FT. I'd be the one to miss work and pick up a sick kid - but because my work makes it easier than his. I consider our setup perfectly reasonable but am aware it is (wrongly) unusual. He has had at least one behind-the-back comment about it being emasculating.

The vast majority of the time you're right. I think most honest dads would admit it's not the same. I've lost 12 years of my working life - my ex hasn't ever needed to make that sacrifice. He's gone from promotion to promotion in fact. Because that was where he was able to channel his energies. I've channelled my energies into my dcs - partly through choice, partly through necessity because they all have additional needs. My primary responsibility is to them - his primary respossibility is to his work. This is clear from the rare occasions I've been called away to do something else, and one of them has had to be collected from by him when ill. "And he was supposed to be at work!" Say the nursery staff "why couldn't you collect x yourself?" If he was perceived as 'just as much as a parent' comments like that wouldn't arise.

Gosh it was/is 50/50 n our house, always has been.
I couldn't have been with a man who wasn't prepared to be a member of the family, in all senses.
It has nothing to do with how many hours someone works it's a mentality.
Of course if a person isn't at home they can't do the stuff that needs to be done whilst they are at work, but they can do their share before and after. They can pave the way/prep for things needing doing later.
Mine will prep tea if he isn't here to cook it eg.

I think my DP would absolutely step up if he needed to, say if something happened to me and he became their sole parent. Otherwise I’m a SAHP currently so yep, 90% of their care falls on me which is fine as I’d rather be concentrated on his career.

Yanbu at all.

And I say that as one who does have an equal parent as a husband. Having seen many friends and colleagues relationships I’m aware of how unusual our setup is. We both work, we share pickups and drop offs equally and we split doctors appts, days off and sick days. Obviously we are flexible and not dogmatic about it but the goal is as equal as we can be.

And STILL we face pressures that make it hard. He was in a meeting a while back with the toddler on his knee over the phone because I had to be in hospital - several people expressed surprise that ‘the wife’ or ‘the nanny’ (which we don’t have) wasn’t there to ‘deal with it.’

Th disparity in how parents are treated starts early - I was stripped of my reporting lines and sidelined a day after letting work know I was pregnant the first time. He was congratulated. Then I took maternity leave and of course that has an impact but the impact is disproportional for women. Not just being x months plus catchup time behind, it was effectively being shunted onto the mummy track. Short notice work meetings and long hours culture only work for people with some sort of facilitator and that’s usually a wife at home. And so the gap widens

So even a couple who try really hard to be equal face pressures externally.

And we are I think not the norm. I see far too many women working all hours then coming home and doing another shift while the husband puts his feet up. Men who are ‘clueless’ about babies, men who ‘babysit’ their own kids. Men who don’t get up at night or early mornings and who expect everything domestic to be done by the woman.

I honestly think this is the main reason for divorce. Ten years of doing absolutely everything for a bloody lazy manchild plus holding down a job is enough to kill any love or respect or affection.

So YANBU at all.

Agreed, general attitudes do need changing.

It's pleasing to see stories of Fathers pulling equal weight, truly. But I'm not convinced it is yet normal enough to sway me from the opinion that it is still very much considered a mother's job to look after the children.

The tide is turning, and I think everyone benefits from that but I just don't see dad's beating down the doors of their employer to give them part time roles that would enable them to care for their children more. Why, well I imagine that the lack of pay, the loss of career progression... all of the things their partners (ex's) HAVE to deal with. I see plenty of women arguing for a fairer workplace, but the statistics behind the take up of shared parental leave speak for themselves.

I know of plenty of fathers who think they are doing 50/50 but sadly the reality seems to be quite different, and often they don't take into account the mental load!

YANBU, of course you're not, we only have to look around to see it. I can't honestly see it changing, but I've become cynical about societal change as I've got older.