To think that we should cut doctors a little slack sometimes...?

[Latitia]

Now I'm not talking about doctors who are outright rude and obstructive. I know they're out there and there will always be people in every profession who don't act in an appropriate manner.

I'm talking more about not shouting and making a fuss when the doc is 30 mins late (could have been dealing with a child who can't tell them what's wrong or an emergency), or because they don't agree with your 'google diagnosis' and refuse to prescribe the medication you think you need etc etc.

I was in the kitchen at work the other afternoon and some colleagues were making comments such as 'what do docs even do in between patients anyway, faff around?' Etc. I just find it all a bit mad. My father is a gp, and whilst he is clearly a very good one, the abuse he receives is heartbreaking. Bricks through his windows for not prescribing tramadol, screamed at because he's running 20 mins late due to an emergency, hate mail because he cancelled his surgery because his car was entirely snowed in and tailbacks of 30 miles. He gets this almost every day.

Do our doctors maybe deserve a little more than this? Or am I being too soft simply because he's my father and I hate to hear of people abusing him...

Had a *

I've had some great treatment by GPs. I know at least twice I've caused a really delay in surgery. I happened to have requested double appointments but it just went on longer than that.

The MH services who might have been able to help were struggling so could only see absolute emergencies sovhad discharged me. My GP could have said "I'll make a new referral" or "go to A&E" but they didn't which was brilliant, as I suspect I would have self harmed.

On the whole GPs are fine but why do the doctors allow their staff to be so rude? Repeatedly.

I'd never be rude OP or anything like that, just think that getting very behind within the first 2 patients isn't really good (at least in our area where urgent care isn't really meant to be part of GPs, it goes to urgent care hubs and on the day GP apps are mid morning). I get morning appointments when I can but lose pay for medical appointments so them running unreasonably late so early leaves me out of pocket.

To me, if it's so urgent it warrants putting the whole books of people behind by half an hour before the day has properly started then it's probably not a GP thing. But I'm not an expert at all so might be way off.

Running 20-30 mins behind towards the end of a session I'd just accept as part and parcel & wouldn't bat an eyelid.

@MaisyPops there are so many reasons a doc can run late in the morning. They've had a phone call from a care home they are responsible for dealing with and one of the patients is very unwell, they have a sick patient on the phone who needs advice from someone who has their medical records and knows their history (not 111), the first person of the day was a baby who was not able to tell doc what the problem was etc etc. You just don't know. Docs DO deal with urgent issues as an when required to. It's just the nature of the job. I doubt any GP would be late simply because they couldn't be bothered to start on time. Ok, disorganisation can catch doctors out just like any other person, but 99% of the time there will be a very good reason that patients will never get to find out about.

The GPs at my health centre are great but Jeez do they get abuse. The stuff that is thrown at them when they come to collect patients late from reception is just mind-boggling. As a teacher, I get a fair bit too but honestly, what my poor doctors have to put up with is unacceptable.

My GPS surgery are lovely, the reception staff are helpful and can always figure out a way to get what you need whether it’s an appointment or a prescription somehow in an appropriate timeframe. My own GP is lovely, she has fitted me in at the end of a day when I’m sure she should have been going home because I’d popped in to make an appointment at some point in the next few days and the receptionist had taken one look at me and decided it might be better if someone could see me ASAP. She treats my toddler DS with kindness and respect explaining what she is doing. The other GPs at the surgery are also generally excellent, treating me as an intelligent adult.
My mums GP is a wonderful man, he was dad’s GP at the time of his death, he made several home visits, did all he could to keep dad comfortable and made a direct phone call to me to let me know that if I wanted to see him I needed to visit ASAP when I lived 600 miles away, My mum wasn’t in any state to tell me and that phonecall gave me a chance to spend the last few hours with my dad, I will always be grateful for that doctors kindness and honesty. He still takes very good care of Mum and enquires about her mental health as well as physical when she visits.

But Latitia if they are responsible for care homes or have a sick patient on the phone, why isn't there a duty dr to deal with that stuff? It also doesn't explain the acceptability of reverse arsiness towards a patient who may be running two mins late for similarly pressing reasons when the dr is still running behind and there is no reason for it.

This sort of stuff just doesn't happen to the same extent in continental europe where people have to pay a small sum up front. Nor in France does the local dr assume he or she may use my first name. There I am Mme - no issue. I think it's an important nuance vis a vis service and attitude.

I think tolerance to both public and private sector workers. Far too much complaining

@RaindropsAndSparkles I think you may be slightly naive in thinking that doctors shouldn't do anything other than see their patients in surgeries. Do you think every single nursing home is able to find a doctor who can be on call to them and not have patients to see? You would need hundreds and hundreds of extra doctors in order to work a system like this. Doctors have their surgeries during the day, then have specific time allocated to do their visits, either to care homes, houses etc. At the end of the day, certain doctors work very closely with other organisations and if a specific doctor knows a sick person's records in depth, they are going to be called. It is the safest thing to do and emergencies can not be planned around doctors' schedules.

Personally I think you are a bit of a muppet if you're truly going to take offence to someone using your first name, but that's just my opinion. I'm fairly laid back.

Also, my mother actually lives in continental Europe. They are in crisis where she lives! They even got to a point where they run out of gloves and hospitals were being kept afloat by volunteers. It's awful. It can't be said that healthcare is better in the whole or Continental Europe as that is entirely false.

Raindrops nobody wants to be a GP anymore because it's such a crap job. Recruitment for training schemes has multiple vacancies when it never used to.

So the Duty Doctor is probably also seeing a list of patients as well as taking phone calls, making notes, signing prescriptions.

As well as sometimes you need to speak to the GP that actually knows the patient, not just the duty doctor.

Things may well come up, but then if that' the case someone should be on call (just like in school we have someone on call to deal with urgent issues with students so the class teachers can teach and not be 30 minutes late because 'something came up'.
).

If they should be running clinic, they should be running clinic. If someone is unwell and wants a phonecall back then there should be time located for that, or if it is an emergency then it goes through for emergency.

Considering I've been stuck in traffic and had a medical app cancelled because 2 mins after my app started I was stood in a queue waiting to sign in (hence we always asking for 8am appointments or as close as possible), I do struggle with the idea that I would have lost pay to attend an app, which wouldn't have taken the whole 10 mins, had it down as a did not attend, then book another appointment only to essentially be told that it's perfectly fine for me to book an 815am appointment, but actually they're running late already (so i have to call school, get emergency leave, lose pay, have colleagues set cover).

I would never in a million yeaes be anything othet than polite and reasonable because things can crop up, but I do struggle with the idea that 30 mins late by appointment 2 is considered acceptable whilst someone waiting to sign in at reception can have their appointment cancelled because 'you are late and the doctor can't fit you in now'.

Definitely. I go to haematology every 12 weeks and I can guarantee my appointment will be at least an hour late
I get annoyed but then I remind myself how long the consultant spent with me explaining my diagnosis. It's also in the cancer centre - I can't say to him well hurry up telling that person and their family they have cancer

@MaisyPops I absolutely understand your frustrations, however I just don't know where all of these on call doctors would come from. There aren't enough to keep surgeries afloat. Let alone to be on call and not be seeing routine patients.

I do get that but if I have waited three weeks for an appointment before 8.30 because I have to go to work I expect the dr to be available at 8.30 (ish). The person in the care home does not have to go to work. When I have been v ill I have been fitted in at 10.30, not at 8.30 and if I or a member of my family can't wait we have to attend A&E.

I have no issue with a dr using my first name providing they invite me to use theirs. That's called equality NOT being a muppet. I am not subordinate to a dr and I do not in 2018 expect to be exposed to a paternalistic attitude. GPs and the NHS are not free.

My vet sees me on time. Apts are 10 minute slots. They and their staff are always polite. The difference? Ah yes, I pay at the point of delivery and if they were inefficient or rude they wouldn't be paid.

My vet calls me Midnight's mummy. HCPs say "mum" or "you mum". No. I have the full power of speech and at least afford me the courtesy of throwing in a pronoun.

You've asked for people's opinions.
If the purpose of the thread is to tell anyone who has a frustration essnrtially to put up and shut up because they're doctors then I don't get the point of the thread.

I don't see why i had to have my appointment cancelled when I was stood in the surgery because the doctor decided they didn't have enough time because I was 2 mins late (and had called ahead to let them know) and yet they were routinely running late from 815 am. The double standard is what rubs me up the wrong way. Why should they tell me they don't have time to see me when there's still 8 mins of my time left? I'm there and there's nobody in my slot. It wouldn't need 10 mins to have my pill checkup and if it got to the end of my slot they could easily say 'i need the next patient'. But no, cancelling my appointment without knowing what it was for was obviously the best thing to do. That way I can take another appointment from someone who needs it because they couldn't possibly give me the rest of ny appointment time.
Upshot is, I lost pay twice and took up 2 appointments for a 5 min pill check up because they decdied their time was more important. Yes the double standard pissed me off.

I never complain about my gp or anyone at the surgery.

But the GP partners could take a little less pay and pay their staff more instead, surely? Or allow more time per patient?

And if the dailymail pathetic excuse for journalists turn up you can fuck right off. thry better not use one element of frustration as evidence for their shameful attacks on the NHS and public services

I agree. I'm a doctor and have often been treated badly by patients and family, including being threatened while I was obviously pregnant.

There is also a lot of bullying within the profession sadly.

As a suggestion, if you are happy with the care you receive from a doctor, please take the time to write them a brief note saying this, it is really appreciated, and helps to balance the negative experiences.

maisypops there is no funding for an additional doctor to be on call, nor are there enough doctors.

hibble
There's no excuse for anyone being spoken to aggressively or confrontationally at all.

Regardless of my frustration of a particular GP's double standard (very quickly stopped seeing them), most are lovely and genuinely care.

I have done that hibble and do that for any good service from my binmen, osteopath to the paper lad. It's something we are all forgetting.
After my mum died I took in wine and chocolates for the staff who nursed her.

@MaisyPops the purpose of this thread is to recognise that doctors get a lot of stick, often for things which aren't in their control. I don't believe I have told anyone to put up, or shut up. I have welcome a debate and am voicing my opinion. Just as people have voiced theirs.

I actually agree with you that being two minutes late does not constitute a good excuse to cancel your appointment. That would frustrate me also and I would argue my case. I've never experienced that before and would be annoyed if I did.

See I think people should raise their concerns and frustrations (just like they should raise concerns or frustrations about crap in education) but they should do it without being rude or aggressive.

It doesn't make it the fault or individual doctors (or whoever), well with the exception of my delight who came behind reception, saw me and then told the receptionist to say no again.

Ultimately, surgeries shouldn't be half an hour behind by 815am. It's not having a pop at individuals to say that. It's saying if you are going ti run a service, it needs funding and running properly (instead of trying to run every public service into the ground so it can be tendered out to some lord/lady's company to make money).

Not a doctor (and have massive huge respect for them) but I used to get threats frequently when working as an OOH dentist. It was bizarre. By all means, key the cars outside, I came here by train so... whatevs.

Really off putting to get sent somewhere and see that reception have bullet proof glass yet the treatment rooms are all off corridors with no emergency alarms.

Many people believe that they pay for the NHS therefore they have a transactional relationship with it and its workers. I’m certain that over 50% of households don’t make a net contribution to the service.

That doesn’t excuse anything but seriously, you pay my wages? After travel, registration and indemnity, I was taking home about £10 per hour- I know this makes me privileged but it didn’t make the abuse worthwhile.

So I voted with my feet.