to want to scrap daylight savings?

[unicornfarts]

Rant: I hate this day every year. And it's partner in October. Whatever the (weak if you ask me) arguments were about initiating daylight savings, I cannot for the life of me understand why we need it still in this 24/7 globalised non-stop world we live in. If you need daylight to work, then work when there's daylight - who cares what the clock says?! OH has tried to defend it citing historical features of employment law etc, but I just don't accept that there weren't alternative measures that would;t mess with your body clock twice a week. His subsequent argument is that now we have it, why go to the expense of changing it.....I would argue that there are a significant number of missed NHS appointments because of people forgetting to change their clocks, and presumably there are missed business hours etc......AIBU in wanting to get rid of daylight savings?!

They tried temporarily changing it and more children were injured in car accidents

No, they weren't. RoSPA:

www.rospa.com/rospaweb/docs/advice-services/road-safety/british-summertime-paper.pdf

Road casualty figures during the morning (7:00 am – 10:00 am) and afternoon (4:00 pm – 7:00 pm) for the period affected by time change in the two winters (1966/67 and 1967/68) before the experiment and in the first two winters (1968/69 and 1969/70) when BST was retained were analysed. The data showed that keeping British Standard time had resulted in an 11% reduction in casualties during the hours affected by the time change in England and Wales and a 17% reduction in Scotland. The overall reduction for Great Britain was 11.7%. Although casualties in the morning had increased, the decrease in casualties in the evening far outweighed this.
Overall, about 2,500 fewer people were killed and seriously injured during the first two winters of the experiment.

The perception problem is that the children injured in the morning have names and faces, while the children not injured in the evening are a statistical abstraction. But the facts are not in dispute.

"I really don't see the issue given that we have so much technology that we use day in day out to get round light levels."

But why use technology to create light when natural daylight is better (and has no negative effect on the environment)?

I can't understand people who hate going outside in good weather. It doesn't even have to be hot, just warm and not wet/snowing/foggy.

And the cold lovers - why do you need thick coats, blankets, fires and hot drinks if you love the cold so much? Oh the irony.

But why use technology to create light when natural daylight is better

You get that daylight "saving" time doesn't create any more daylight, right? All it does is change the labels given to the hours, not create any more hours.

I find both clock changes oddly unsettling and confusing and struggle at the time, but I really like how things are right now. Not light too early but before I leave for work, and light evenings but not so late the dc won't sleep!

I'd agree with staying on BST all the time.

Clocks going back is worst, it's suddenly so dark and depressing and even harder to get up in the mornings.

If I was in charge, I'd at least just pick one and stick to it.

YANBU
There should be proper research done on it to see the terrible effects it can have. I for one get wrecked for months of the winter and spend a lot of it half dead.

Stick to one of the times and leave it alone.

I love bst and it being light when I get home from work. In the winter I spend most of it sluggishly shuffling around in the dark. I live in Scotland so we are heavily effected by the changes in light. In winter we probably get 6 hours of proper daylight and in the summer we get 17 hours.

Yanbu I hate it. BST all year round please.

But dh prefers clocks changing. His rationale is if we had BST all year round it would be dark when he went to work (about 8am) and dark when he came home from work do he'd never get any daylight in the winter, but at least with GMT it is light in the mornings. I guess he has a point.

My argument is that if you must have GMT, put the clocks back much later, October is way too early as it then makes Dawn ridiculously early but then it's dark by 5pm. If you just had GMT from say mid November to end of Feb, in the very darkest part of winter then it would be useful, not hated by so many.

But as someone with a baby and 3 year old I've hated today passionately. Woke late, 3 year old won't nap, baby napping too late. Dinner was late, bedtime was late, I've only just stopped and tonight was meant to be an early night

I think all of mainland U.K. Will get light during the summer evenings even without changing the clocks......it magically happens if its own accord as summer develops, no?

the darkest day is december 21st so we put clocks back approx 7 weeks (last weekend in october) before this date but alter them the other way 13 weeks later surely if it really works it should be equal time either side of darkest day so if it was balanced clocks would go forward on 3rd weekend in february not march

"You get that daylight "saving" time doesn't create any more daylight, right? All it does is change the labels given to the hours, not create any more hours."

Of course, but my working hours don't shift, so getting an extra hour of daylight in the evening is a bonus. I assume you don't work?

it should be equal time either side of darkest day

Celestial mechanics is fun.

Remember, solar days (the interval between the sun being at its highest point) aren't individually 24 hours, they average 24 hours over the whole year (hence mean time). In January, days are about 24 hours and 30 seconds long. In March and October, they're about 23 hours and 40 seconds. The net effect of that is that in October, "clock on the wall" time is 15 minutes ahead of solar time (ie, solar noon is at 12:15 UTC at Greenwich). In February, "clock on the wall" time is 15 minutes behind solar time (ie, solar noon is at 11:45 UTC at Greenwich). The relationship between the sun and the clocks varies over a range of about half an hour over the course of the year.

So fiddling with clocks to shift sunrise to the appropriate time for munitions workers in the first world war will be different between what you do in the spring and what you do in the autumn, because the relationship between the sun and a clock ticking mean time isn't symmetrical around Dec 21 as you imply.

We all suffering to accommodate Scottish farmers.

Teacup I noticed that too.

Your reason is interesting Cuboid, I had not known that. It still seems odd that it is as unsymmetrical as it is, that those few minutes add up to a need for so much difference, but you must be right.

Changing the time back and forth in the first place is what I hate though.
Choose one of those times and leave it alone.

How did people live before they brought the changing of the clocks in?

How did people live before they brought the changing of the clocks in?

Largely, without the need to have accurate clocks. Remember, up until the coming of the railways individual towns had their own time: there's more than 20 minutes' difference between noon in Norwich and noon in Penzance (5 degrees 30? something like that). Sundials don't tick consistent hours (see above) and prior to the 19th century accurate clocks were something of a rarity. People got up with the sun, and went to bed with the sun. The need to have cows milked at fixed times is also a creation of the railways and the movement of milk around the country.

Japan's the obvious case of a country which has tried it both ways. The Americans imposed daylight savings in 1945, and it was abolished in 1955 when the Americans left. Partly for political reasons, partly because Japan's location and shape mean it's not obvious that it's useful.

Very interesting Cuboid. The USA does have daylight savings time too though, so what do you mean by saying they abolished it in 1955?

I think Cuboid means that Japan abolished it in 1955.

I agree, can we please just leave it as it is now. I genuinely believe that this be one of those things future generations will learn about and think my goodness didn't we do weird stuff in the past.

I think the clocks should go forward another 20 days later.

The weather is actually warm enough to make something of extra light in the evenings in mid April, and now they've gone forward, it's very gloomy again when I get up.

The USA does have daylight savings time too though, so what do you mean by saying they abolished it in 1955?

As was clear from context, I was saying that the Americans imposed DST on Japan during the occupation 1945-55.

Not all of the US has DST, of course, and it isn't even state-level. For example Arizona doesn't do DST, the Navajo lands within Arizona do, and no-one who isn't a native of Indiana understands what Indiana does.

Sorry, Cuboid, I read carelessly. Thank you for the answer.

The winter in Scotland is dark enough without making it worse for us thanks.

I know nothing about anything but I have this vague hope that if Scotland gets independence we on the south coast can live forever in happiness and sunshine in BST...?

Cupid thanks for your info. I have often wondered why we don't stick with Gmt all year round.

During WW2 they had double summer time. And there's arguments within Spain that they should also be on Gmt rather than Central European time.

yanbu at all. it's horrible. the one in October is nice when I comes round but not nice enough to make up for the horror of when the clocks go forward.