Aibu to really dislike Primark?

[Nomoet]

Tbh i tend to steer away from these discussions with my friends as I'm very much in the minority and well if people want to do what they want to do and you're not going to change their mind then what's the point?

But I was having a chat with a friend this evening about Primark who loves it and it's made me feel so uncomfortable. I think the main reason I dislike it so much is because it's ultra cheap fashion and I just don't buy that you can get stuff made that cheaply without huge compromises on standards of how people are treated in factories - whether it's child labour or working hours and working conditions or pay.

And what makes me feel cross is how many people buy willy nilly stuff from there all the time just because they can just because it's cheap when really they could go without it or get it from somewhere else and it wouldn't hurt them or certainly not as much as the person making their clothes is being hurt by these practises.

Why have you singled out Primark in particular?

Is it because you've researched their worker's conditions and pay etc?

What did that research uncover, can you link to it?

You are probably not being unreasonable but it's hard to tell without the info.

Because it's the one of the largest symbols of ultra cheap disposable fashion and a lot of my friends are obsessed with it.

There was a programme years ago - think it was panorama - that showed they used child labour there. I think they said they changed after that. In 2013 there was the factory in Bangladesh that collapsed killing over 1000 workers. It collapsed due to poor construction rather than an earthquake. Primark was one of the brands that ended up paying compensation to the workers in recognition of their working conditions.

To be honest even without these incidents I would still feel the same way as I am cynical and simply don't believe it is possible to produce clothes at the price they sell without huge sacrifices at a human cost. And if I'm being honest I despise the obsession with the just buying and buying fast throwaway clothes with no thought as to how things like that can be produced so cheaply which Primark in particular seems to encourage.

Other chains are just as bad - they just mark them up more

This week I'm flat broke and in desperate need of underwear. I got 4 pairs in Primark for £2.

I have bills to pay and can't justify spending £10 at the minute on knickers. I need to be very careful with money right now.

Time you climbed off That ole privileged high horse. People prioritise as they need to
primark is affordable and for many individuals & families that is important
Maybe You have the time,money,head space to think about Provenance of clothes,worker conditions
Other folk they prioritise the here and now inc school and purchase clothes

I don't really get the fuss over Primark. The prices are low, but a lot of their stuff looks cheap and tatty. I think places like Sainsbury's and Asda offer better value for money.

With you on this one Nomoet. I don't like the ethos of buy a new wardrobe every season. I don't think it matters if its Primark or John Lewis your shopping in, its a culture that hurts someone somewhere, even if its just the dyes from the fabrics getting into a water source, not the labour. Its just that Primark doesn't try to hide as much as the top end brands. I do shop Primark as we are on a budget and really can't afford the ethical stuff, but we just get what we need, not new clothes for the sake of new clothes.

Nomoet, instinctively I’m with you and try where possible to buy less and at places where they have explicit rules about their employees and contractors’ employees. But if you are broke needing new clothes, it’s a relief, and I’m very much aware that whatever may be said in public in other places, the underlying reality may well be different. It would be good to get some old fashioned investigative journalism that looked at the conditions of employment across the rag trade: the sweat shops on this country are nothing to write home about,

And just as bad are the things we buy in other areas. The completely unnecessary use of palm oil which is causing huge levels of soil erosion in the Far East. The factory conditions in China, where so many and so much of our toys and tech come from. The recent revelations about how free range happy hens are nothing of the sort, The energy companies... etc etc

It’s very hard to be pure especially on a constrained budget. We just do what we can.

I see the affluent mc berating the primark shoppers,asking they reign in consumption
Whilst the mc whizz about on overseas holidays,drive kids to enriching activities,consume avocados and products flown in from overseas
Give your mc head a wobble.

"I think places like Sainsbury's and Asda offer better value for money."

It was Asda/Walmart that refused to sign the agreement to improve the safety and conditions of workers in Bangladesh. Mango and Benetton were charged with culpability of the buildings collapse.

Primark was one of the first to sign up for the improvements. They also train their Managers (£28k a year) from the sales floor. I know two people who have had no previous qualifications who are now managers.

I don't buy the clothes from there, but i do buy PJs and underwear.

There has been recent scandals about River island and other medium range fashion shops, but Primark always seems to be a target. I'm Vegan for humanitarian and ecological reasons, so I'm signed up for News about what the West could improve. When you consider that Primark was one of the first high street shops to only have paper recyclable bags and have very little packaging etc, they aren't doing that badly.

Not everyone can afford to care to be honest. For years I only bought from shops I felt to be ethical, and even now I go without luxuries rather than buying certain brands but money is really tight and it is buy cheap or go without, even on cheap clothes I am literally wearing things til they fall apart, but I wont make my DC wear clothes that are too small when I can just about afford to buy clothes from Primark.

Daft to pile on Primark about this when it's just about every multinational company, and not just the companies pumping out mass volumes of cheap products. Apple, Nike, Adidas etc. are all notorious for the quality of their factories.

And whether it's a "bad" thing or not depends on your economic perspective, and on your perspective of whether the fault/responsibility lies with a company like Nike or the people from whom they lease the factory, or the governments of those countries which allowed foreign entities to do these things in their country despite the minimal amounts of tax these companies pay. Foreign direct investment and all of that.

So, by all means, hate Primark, but at least have a nuanced perspective on the issue before forming that opinion.

Yabu, a lot of people don't have much choice but to shop in cheaper shops like this. If you can afford to buy more expensive stuff and you care about the ethical side of it, then carry on, but would you still be saying this if you were struggling on the poverty line with a family to feed and clothe?

New look and h&m were both caught out last year. Asda and Tesco both source from Bangladesh were the conditions are some of the worst.

Paying more means nothing if the company is unethical.

The OP is not being unreasonable. Others being bad as well is no defence either.

I agree. I hate cheap, disposable fashion. In the past clothes were not cheap but we coped with having less. When I was little I had very few clothes but those I had were well made and lasted better. Everyone has mountains of clothes these days. It is not sustainable. Plus I hate the fact that all the shops have had to start selling cheaper clothing to keep up. It is almost impossible to get clothes that are well made in a good quality fabric any more.

There's a documentary online about brands such as Next, Zara and M&S who use factories that use child labour. It's not just Primark that's questionable.

Quality/disposability wise I mostly agree with you. I honestly don't understand why people buy new things when there's so much quality second hand stuff around. Most of my clothes, furniture, general stuff etc is really decent/designer makes and brands yet costs less than somewhere like Primark. Why buy a Primark dress for £12 when you can get Karen Millen for £5 - £10?

Ethically, I'm really torn. Firstly, it's not just the cheapest brands that have poor and unfair working conditions. And, more importantly, change needs to come from within with consultation. Remember the drive to boycott Primark years ago? I know some ppl who run charity trips to various places. One area they went to had a large percentage of the population employed in sweatshop conditions making clothes for very little money. Awful. But when they went back a couple of years later the factory had closed and the population was largely unemployed with no money at all. Effective boycotting maybe? But it had made the people worse off than they were before. We need to change things but not by avoiding cheap shops necessarily. It's too simplistic.

I know the documentary you mention. It came out afterwards that the BBC had faked portions of that (mainly the child labour parts). Primark investigated their claims and it all came out. The BBC has to issue an apology. So, sometimes the 'facts' are not always that.

LipstickHandbagCoffee. Maybe remove that chip off your shoulder whilst asking others to climb down?

I hope you realise that the more expensive brands, high street or fashion houses are exploiting their workers too. They just slap a higher price on the item to give the impression of ethics and shit, because you know we have to pay our people. In fact, their exec level gets insane money and not much dribbles down to the bottom of their food chain.
And the quality can be the same or even worse.
This constant slagging of Primark is a snobbery of the highest degree and a rich people privilege.

the only thing i hate about primark is the sometimes dodgy sizing in the same item - however they arent the only shops who has this

This is such a middle class dilemma.
Luckily those of us going cap in hand to the government for benefits (because our wages are so shit) don't have the luxury of wringing our hands about who makes our clothes.

Hate Primark. Is disgusting how people buy stuff which they don't need only to dispose of it a replace with new crapola. The fabric is also vile. Regards to cheap pants, the material is just not what you need to be wearing around your privates!

It is such a complicated issue because yes conditions in overseas factories are dreadful but without them many people would have no income at all.
The same factories produce clothes for Primark etc and designer brands so just because we pay more doesn't mean things are better.

I am concerned though about the attitude we have to clothes now that they are basically seen as disposable. Hugh F-W did a programme about how much fabric is in landfill. Synthetic fabric and buttons, embellishments etc won't decompose. It's an environmental disaster and we could easily improve the situation by buying less, choosing more natural fibres, buying/selling second hand and repairing our clothes instead of replacing them.
Unfortunately while it is possible to buy clothes so cheaply there is little incentive to do so.