Aibu to really dislike Primark?

[Nomoet]

Tbh i tend to steer away from these discussions with my friends as I'm very much in the minority and well if people want to do what they want to do and you're not going to change their mind then what's the point?

But I was having a chat with a friend this evening about Primark who loves it and it's made me feel so uncomfortable. I think the main reason I dislike it so much is because it's ultra cheap fashion and I just don't buy that you can get stuff made that cheaply without huge compromises on standards of how people are treated in factories - whether it's child labour or working hours and working conditions or pay.

And what makes me feel cross is how many people buy willy nilly stuff from there all the time just because they can just because it's cheap when really they could go without it or get it from somewhere else and it wouldn't hurt them or certainly not as much as the person making their clothes is being hurt by these practises.

The fact that £10 is considered expensive for a t-shirt is how skewed our thinking has got about clothes. I know enough people that would spend double that on a takeaway once a week (and no not well off people in ivory towers.)
Kids today have several times more clothes than when I was a child. Drawers full. Not that a £10 t -shirt is necessarily any more ethical than a £3 one, but should any item of clothing really be £3?.that will have been around 40p wholesale.

@FleurDelacoeur I understand what you are saying. Nowhere did I suggest you must be a cave hermit or make your own clothes. My point is that if you choose not to shop somewhere because they use sweatshops, but then shop at other stores which also use sweatshops and make more profit out of it, your argument is pretty weak. My opinion however and you are more than entitled to disagree!

Most things people do have an impact on the planet be it by driving, food choices, holiday travel, clothes shopping etc. Boycotting one shop unless you never buy anything new, don't travel unless by foot, only eat unpackaged food etc is hypocritical.

So you're saying that without Primark all you "poor" people would wonder around naked and barefoot? Right. Well I was very poor up until recently and had plenty of money problems. Still didn't need to shop in Primark so sorry don't buy it.

Yup totally get that other high street shops are doing it. Yes it's worse in one way because the mark up is more so they could afford to pay their workers more. But for that argument you're also less able to buy as much There. Furthermore it's not just "poor" people that shop in Primark. It's really all sorts attracted to the quick easy cheap culture.

No i don't live a completely ethical life, but I disagree that that means I can't do anything about it. You have to start somewhere. And to whoever that asked no i don't use uber deliveroo or shop at amazon or sports direct.

I'm not poor, but I like primark for basic underwear, socks and pyjamas. I just don't see the point in spending more on something most people aren't going to see, or care about.

I'm with you, nomoet.

@callieallie - I do agree there's a point about hypocrisy here - I mentioned in a previous post that scapegoating Primark customers is a total red herring - but to say you can't comment on the ethics of something until you've squared off every ethical question ever is a neat way to sidestep any engagement with ethics at all and an abrogation o responsibility.

No i don't live a completely ethical life, but I disagree that that means I can't do anything about it

So (again) where do you shop that’s affordable yet ‘better’ than Primark? Especially since it’s been established that Primark is probably more ethical than most high street shops to begin with?

Really? You're only allowed to raise concerns about ethical practices and disposable fashion if you're a cave hermit who lives on leaves and berries?

Don't think anyone is saying that, but these types or arguments are more often than not made with the premise of "other people should..." and ignore the many many things they contribute to the problem, even so much as wanting to stay "on trend" but by buying more expensive items., then like others have said you ignore your laptop/phone/diamond ring/food it does usually come from a very hypocritcal stance 99% of the time.

Primark is not the worst offender, its the easiest one to target, much like Mcdonalds and fast "crap" food etc.

It probably isn't possible to be ethical about everything. Not practically anyway.

For a long time I thought I was pretty ethical because I don't buy new. So I don't really need to worry about my phone, jeans, table, dress, laptop, boots, mugs etc because someone else had it first so any 'issues' with it were already out there.

Part of me still thinks it's bad to buy new because there's just so much 'stuff' out there. EBay, Facebook, charity/vintage shops and car boots provide multiple different ways for us to share and swap the stuff around. In this country we don't need anything new creating.

But we do need industry and employment. Which is where the whole argument falls down and makes consumerism necessary - and even ethical?!

I can make clothes for my children and myself if I have to.
I wouldn't be able to afford to buy ethically produced fabric even if I could find it.
I buy a lot of second hand clothing. I doubt much, or any of it, came from ethical sources.
Buying it used doesn't absolve me from the process does it?

I DO think we need to cut down on the tat.
Teeshirts for one day, novelty secret santa gifts, most of the stuff Tiger, Hawkins Bizarre, Claires etc produces.
Ikea is a favourite of many people who consider themselves responsible but they were the first furnishing store to encourage mass impulse buying and the notion that furniture was just for now and could be replaced at any time

There is so much hypocrisy involved in this issue. The fact that Primark is the main target is very telling.

Perhaps we should keep Primark and get rid of the stores that sell the same stuff but wrap it up in prettier packaging and charge more for it?

It is quite tricky to get ethically made clothing and shoes.

Once you get to kids stuff especially schoolwear it's high on impossible..

I'll come back and read this whole thread later but if not already said, any tips out there?

Primark , m& s , it's all the same!

But the fact that Primark is cheaper does make it worse because of what it encourages. I would rather stores with higher prices use the mark up to pay their workers more, improve conditions. Don't think Primark should be setting the standard for price jeez.

So where do I shop? Good question. I probably haven't bought any new clothes in about five years so am racking my brains. But mainly charity shops and sometimes H&M in the sales and other high street store sales. But not Primark. Obvs.

Totally agree with Mrs DV. I am looking around my house now and it's full of Ikea stuff. And when you go there it's totally the same ethos as primark.

Still didn't need to shop in Primark so sorry don't buy it
So where did you shop?
Also how long were you 'poor' for and how many people of what age where you responsible for?

If you are paying off debts but in work and can see an end to it, have a couple of young children, its a lot easier to avoid Primark than if you are long term low income with older children.

Banging on about Primark gives you an excuse to just carrying on doing what you are doing as long as you don't buy anything from there.
Something you don't want to do anyway.

This thread is like me announcing on FB that I am going to boycott Millets, Lands End and Mountain Warehouse
never will I darken their doorstep to meet my non existent outdoor pursuit needs

To be fair if there are any good tips on here I'd also be grateful for them.

In this country we don't need anything new creating.

Well that argument falls down pretty flat when you think about it logically, for one no one would be able to use the internet now if no new laptops/modems/phones where created for the uk market.

Also there is only so many times for clothes to be passed on before they are of no use...

Yes I suppose Ikes is similar although is it really on the same scale? I can't imagine people bulk buying furniture, using it for a short while and then getting new? Happy to be corrected though.

It's the same as not being able to afford ethically grown food? We use eggs from caged hens as it's all we can afford at the moment. our smart price tomatoes were probably grown by child workers on a farm rife with abuse. Same for everyday value potatoes. I'd love to buy from an organic farm with a fair price going to the farmer, or clothes from an ethical source but can't afford those at the moment.

My flatmates buy a lot from Primark also buy a lot of battery hen eggs (only mentioning this as previous poster brought it up). They think buying free range is for those far more well off. Yet they go out drinking a fair few nights a week, happy to spend £££ on tat and Ubers. It does make me wonder at the mindset as I gaze down at them from my ivory tower.

Nomoet it isn't just furniture though - think of the marketplace. I probably go there as often as Primark and certainly come back with more purchases when I do.

Hate to break it to you but Primark is no worse than the majority of the high street.

It's a misconception that because unit prices are lower the working conditions/quality of goods must be worse.

Having visited these factories in the Far East they're all unfortunately very similar (even for 'high end' retailers).

The reason Primark offer such a low RRP is down to the sheer volume they order and the fact they only ship by sea to keep FOB costs down.

But we do need industry and employment. Which is where the whole argument falls down and makes consumerism necessary - and even ethical?!

Interesting point.

There has been a massive second hand clothing industry in some African countries. It provided small and very large business opportunities
It has recently been banned in one country and there are moves to ban it in others.
There are concerns it stops people buying locally produced fabric and clothing.

I doubt there is an economist in the land who would recommend we stopped buying clothes we don't strictly need anything else for that matter.

We all buy stuff we don't need. Funny how it only becomes a matter of concern when poor people do it.