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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Reacting to boss positively but feeling frustrated

52 replies

BlueLegume · 21/03/2018 17:13

My line manager is a very ambitious person who for the most part I just do as I am asked - she does not respond well to criticism or even observations that her way might not necessarily be the best. I’ve no ambition at all and am happy in the job I am in as it challenges me enough but doesn’t encroach on my personal life etc. All in it’s a great role. Increasingly my line manager seems to becoming more and more difficult to read. One minute I’m the best thing she’s ever come across and she can’t belive I don’t want to better myself, the next she speaks to me like I am a child. Today was an example. I am contracted to do certain hours but I always arrive early, a good 45 mins as it gives me peace and quiet to get on before the craziness of a busy office kicks in. I never leave before the designated time I should. She is aware of the hours I keep and has never commented on them. Today I requested a half day on Friday and a day in late May using time owed to me. She requested a meeting and proceeded to reprimand me For expecting to take time off that I had built up through choice of getting in early. If I did add up the extra time I do actually work they easily get loads off me that I never claim back. I reacted appropriately but she spoke to me like I was an idiot - she does do this- over explaining that if everyone did extra hours and wanted to claim them all back the business would fail. I reiterated that I’m happy doing more than is required as it makes my own job easier to handle, all I’m asking is for a small favour of a bit of time owed being honoured. I guess I’m frustrated that she was in full possession of the fact she gets more out of me yet has only addressed it when I called in the favour. Additionally she informed me at the meeting that I can now only accumulate time in lieu when she deems she needs me to do extra hours. For example if she needs me to do a late night she will allow me to come in late the next morning. Not that I can choose to take the hours to suit me. This is not how other staff operate and I feel she is just being dictatorial for the sake of it. I’m not up for conflict about this as I’m simply not that bothered I just want to know if rolling over and nodding yes to her is the best response?

OP posts:
MyBrilliantDisguise · 21/03/2018 17:16

This is not how other staff operate

Are they allowed time off in lieu?

I agree with her if there isn't a formal arrangement for TOIL. It would be a nightmare if this wasn't an organised thing.

whiskyowl · 21/03/2018 17:16

I would speak to HR and find out what the terms and conditions of your employment are and whether you are entitled to time off in lieu. It may be that your boss has to agree to 'overtime' in this way, i.e. you can't just decide to work extra and take it back when you feel like it. However, if other staff doing similar jobs have different conditions, you have a right to question! You can do it politely in a non-confrontational way.

CookieDoughKid · 21/03/2018 17:17

I think she is towing the corporate line to safeguard productivity and hours. Its a business from her point of view and you try not to detach from it. I suggest you to start doing less so that you don't feel you are owed anything. She has every right to take this stance. It's not new, she doesn't want a precedent being taken and not much you can do about it I'm afraid.

CookieDoughKid · 21/03/2018 17:18

I mean you should try to detach from it. Ultimately it boils down to your contractual obligations.

sonjadog · 21/03/2018 17:22

I wouldn't make an issue out of it. I would do as she says, but I would also stop coming in early. Following the rules to the letter can work both ways.

LannieDuck · 21/03/2018 17:25

Do you have an agreement that if you choose to work extra (i.e. without the business asking you to), you can save it up as extra annual leave?

I'd be surprised if you did, but I don't want to assume...

Minisoksmakehardwork · 21/03/2018 17:26

Does your company operate a flexible hours policy, ie within given parameters you can arrive and leave when it suits, but you have to be in for core hours. Our core hours used to be 10-3, we couldn't be in before 8:30 and had to finish by 5pm unless otherwise agreed or is it a set 9-5 with an hour at x for lunch type.

If the former, always leave as soon as your hours for the day are done.

If the latter, don't give the company an hour more of your time.

There is always an element of goodwill but it works both ways. You are not being unreasonable to ask for time off in advance if your company policy states you can.

But if your company doesn't allow for that, then you either have to suck up building up time you cannot use because working earlier suits you, or work your set hours and when your work suffers, explain why and campaign for a more balanced approach to working hours.

WipsGlitter · 21/03/2018 17:30

What is the company policy? You can't just arbitrarily decide to come in and work extra hours without a formal flexi or TOIL policy.

(NB it's toeing the line)

Believeitornot · 21/03/2018 17:31

If you chose to get in early without actually checking that that results in TOIL, then you don’t really have a case.

I get in early because it is convenient. I don’t see it as a way of banking time and I would see it as clock watching if my team did this.

But that’s because we aren’t paid by the hour. Yes we have hours in our contract but there’s an expectation that we will sometimes work more, sometimes less.

Original poster
BlueLegume · 21/03/2018 17:33

Thanks - I’m reluctant to start working to rule, but understand the sentiment. I’m happy to be flexible and also happy to accept and understand we cannot all do the hours we want and expect to claim them back. I guess my irritation came from the fact she is very well aware of the hours I do and I have made it clear at reviews that I mainly do it for my self in ensuring I do the job well. In fact at the last review she asked if I felt overworked- no I didn’t. I explained then that I did the hours to ensure the job is done well and she stated that it is helpful and if I want to take some time in lieu to do so. I’m well aware I won’t get everything back I work I’m just interested that she turns a blind eye to my extended presence week in week out but the minute I ask for a small favour the corporate stance is taken. She could have spoken to me any time any day to check I wouldn’t be asking for time.

OP posts:
NapQueen · 21/03/2018 17:33

With the two requests for using time owes you have placed, are they using the accumulated 45 daily mins or are they using time where she has requested or permitted you to work extra?

Unless your work has a flexi policy/procedure then I can understand her comments. Her behaviour and attitude is another matter.

If she wants you to stick to business hours then I would be doing that mov8ng forward.

Believeitornot · 21/03/2018 17:34

all I’m asking is for a small favour of a bit of time owed being honoured

^but you choose to get in early? It’s different if you were regularly asked to get in early.

NapQueen · 21/03/2018 17:34

But does she owe you the time? So have you done the extra at her request or have you just chose to do the extra?

Rainboho · 21/03/2018 17:35

If the time you are asking to take back is indeed accrued from you choosing to go to work 45 minutes early when this hasn’t been discussed or agreed with your line manager then she was right to pull you up on this.

Lowdoorinthewal1 · 21/03/2018 17:35

I also don't think you can just choose to turn up early on some occasions and then not work on others of your own accord. You've said yourself you turn up early because it suits you, not because there is a need for it.

Can you not use AL on the days you want off?

Original poster
BlueLegume · 21/03/2018 17:37

For the record I’ve asked for my contract to be changed many times - this is something doable and several members of staff have shifted their hours - she has said no. No reason, I put this to her again today as it works for the business that I’m in early - in a massive way. Anyway another senior manager got wind of this today and immediately said ...yes it makes perfect sense that BlueLegume changes her hours to xyz - it’s invaluable that we know she will always be inearly to pick up xyz part of the business.general frustration at management I suppose and I take on all your points.

OP posts:
Believeitornot · 21/03/2018 17:37

I guess my irritation came from the fact she is very well aware of the hours I do and I have made it clear at reviews that I mainly do it for my self in ensuring I do the job well

If my employee said this to me, i would react as she did if they then wanted to take the time off.

It would be different if you said you needed the extra time because you’re over worked and wanted to get that time back.... that’s a completely different conversation which you did not have.

Elmosmum · 21/03/2018 17:39

Sorry I'm a bit confused here.

So you come in 45 mins early every day off your own back and then want to take it back as TOIL?

Doesn't TOIL have to be agreed in advance otherwise everyone could decide to tip up 3 hours extra every day and claim loads of holidays! Or are you on a flexi-time contract?

Stop doing the extra if you expect to get something back for it that you're not contracted for.

Original poster
BlueLegume · 21/03/2018 17:40

For the record the time I’m claiming is genuinely accrued time outside of my early starts for my own benefit. Extra hours accrued through business necessity- early starts and late finishes required by management but never plannned by them just meetings over running and being booked at the last minute early mornings. I would never have been able to object just comply as part of my contract is to be flexible...which I am, always.

OP posts:
DragonflyInn · 21/03/2018 17:41

Sorry but I think YABU. You can't unilaterally take it upon yourself to start early every day and then take back time owed. Unless you have a specific flexi time policy in place, but it doesn't sound as though there is.

DragonflyInn · 21/03/2018 17:42

Sorry OP, x-post

Elmosmum · 21/03/2018 17:42

Yikes you also went to another senior manager to further annoy your boss? Confused

Original poster
BlueLegume · 21/03/2018 17:43

Thanks for all of the responses. Great to have lots of input from people with management and contract understanding. I’ve not tried to claim for time I choose to do extra I’ve simply tried to claim back the genuine time owed from genuine hours worked required by the business and felt that it was questioned unreasonably.

OP posts:
Original poster
BlueLegume · 21/03/2018 17:44

No I didn’t go to another manager - that would be hugely unprofessional. My own line manager did that for a second opinion.

OP posts:
Believeitornot · 21/03/2018 17:45

It might be genuine in your head but unless you’ve got an agreed policy, then no it isn’t.

I work in a finance team and we have people who work longer hours than contracted but we don’t need to clock watch and rack up the hours to take later. We do have a policy on TOIL which is that it is agreed beforehand where possible. But we cannot unilaterally present TOIL to our managers as a fait accompli and nor would we count early starts, which someone does out of choice, as TOIL.

If someone came in early for a meeting, they could finish early another day. But it wouldn’t be added up into days off.

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