Reacting to boss positively but feeling frustrated

[BlueLegume]

My line manager is a very ambitious person who for the most part I just do as I am asked - she does not respond well to criticism or even observations that her way might not necessarily be the best. I’ve no ambition at all and am happy in the job I am in as it challenges me enough but doesn’t encroach on my personal life etc. All in it’s a great role. Increasingly my line manager seems to becoming more and more difficult to read. One minute I’m the best thing she’s ever come across and she can’t belive I don’t want to better myself, the next she speaks to me like I am a child. Today was an example. I am contracted to do certain hours but I always arrive early, a good 45 mins as it gives me peace and quiet to get on before the craziness of a busy office kicks in. I never leave before the designated time I should. She is aware of the hours I keep and has never commented on them. Today I requested a half day on Friday and a day in late May using time owed to me. She requested a meeting and proceeded to reprimand me For expecting to take time off that I had built up through choice of getting in early. If I did add up the extra time I do actually work they easily get loads off me that I never claim back. I reacted appropriately but she spoke to me like I was an idiot - she does do this- over explaining that if everyone did extra hours and wanted to claim them all back the business would fail. I reiterated that I’m happy doing more than is required as it makes my own job easier to handle, all I’m asking is for a small favour of a bit of time owed being honoured. I guess I’m frustrated that she was in full possession of the fact she gets more out of me yet has only addressed it when I called in the favour. Additionally she informed me at the meeting that I can now only accumulate time in lieu when she deems she needs me to do extra hours. For example if she needs me to do a late night she will allow me to come in late the next morning. Not that I can choose to take the hours to suit me. This is not how other staff operate and I feel she is just being dictatorial for the sake of it. I’m not up for conflict about this as I’m simply not that bothered I just want to know if rolling over and nodding yes to her is the best response?

Have you thought that it may be to stop 'the creep' of this starting to happen across the team? I found that when I had people working overtime for me, there were some who I could trust to get on with it without supervision, and some who would take advantage of everyone being out to fanny about. We used to allow people an early start because of time saved in traffic, but then if I came in early I would find them surfing the web, reading a book, eating their breakfast etc - and then try to claim that time back in lieu. Ultimately we had to remove time in lieu as a perk as people couldn't be trusted.

she stated that it is helpful and if I want to take some time in lieu to do so

I think it would be worth having a further conversation with her to clarify her expectations of your working hours, and what she meant when she said the above.

No point having further conversation. It’s her way or no way - extra hours are expected of her or she thinks you are a not committed.

Ok, but what did she mean about 'ok to take some time in lieu'? How much did she intend, and how did she intend you to go about that?

There is a point in clarifying.

You made an incorrect assumption and were caught out.

I’m asking for time I earned due to hours I did she requested. Nothing more. I’ve also come in during booked holidays as it has been requested by her - to conduct a day of interviews. It seems very one sided, but from the experts reaction I can see that I’m the one with the wrong understanding. For clarity I’m not trying to claim for time I choose to do extra, just what management needed me to cover. It’s clearly me at fault.

Hi OP have you kept a record of these accrued hours and what they were for? I agree with others that your early starts are not accruable. Do you have a record of your review where she stated you could take TOIL?

I've always been an early to work person but I think under the circumstances I'd be pulling back a bit to maybe just 15mins, that's not working to rule.

I work somewhere like this and with a similar work ethic to you. It's frustrating and a little insulting when there's no recognition given back, especially if you've worked in a previous company where it was.

Ime it's how you play the game. If you're getting in early anyway I would've asked to take the time and make it up by starting early officially for that time. You could try it now and see if she's receptive to it. In reality you both know it's no different to the stAtus quo but she gets to be managerial about it.

For the final time.....I’m not asking for my early starts to be taken in as accrued time - my point isn’t this. It’s that the business gets a very good deal from me NOT claiming back this time. I have accrued time that they did require me to do and it is policy that time in leiu can be taken ....I’m owed 20 plus hours for time I worked in a booked holiday they requested I come in and also for time done out of hours. I’ve for the first time in ages requested a half day and another day - in advance - and I faced a dressing down which frustrated me. Apologies to anyone who didn’t get the point of the post, I was clearly unclear.

Your last update reads very differently to your OP. If you are asking for TOIL for hours worked at their request then YANBU unless there is a good reason for it being unsuitable such as there being too many people away that day.

If you are asking for TOIL for additional hours worked at your convenience then SWNBU. I suspect when she said to take time when you needed it she meant leaving an hour early, that sort of thing.

Keep a record of hours worked or look at company policy. Have they given a reason for the refusal? In fact, had the second manager actually granted the leave? I’m a bit confused!

That's pretty normal in most settings. You can't just decide to work extra hours and then take them off when you like unless you are on flexitime.

My only slight woble is that you state she said to take some time in leui. Was that related to specific hours she asked you to work?

If I request one of my team to work additional hours, I expect them to take in leui. If they decide to start 30 mins early or work 30 late to finish up something, I would not expect them to add that up and expect that as leui, not. I had not request it, and if their workload meant they felt the had to do that regularly it would be my responsibility to help them manage the workload, prioritise and help asses why were so overloaded that was necessary.

I work hours over my work hours. Many. It's part of the job when you get to certain level if you want success.

You need to clarify, in a note or in whatever format that leave is agreed, that you want to take TOIL accrued on X and Y date.

I think you are a mug for regularly working outside your contracted hours for nothing, but at the same time it would be unreasonable to expect any form of favour or payback.

You shouldn't get a dressing down simply for asking for your leave entitlement however. It sounds to me like your boss is trying to tighten up the ship a bit.

I’m asking is for a small favour of a bit of time owed being honoure

So it’s written in your contract?

If it is, you have a point. I doubt it is though. And consequently I’m with your boss on this one.

OP YANBU to ask for lieu time for the time that the business required you to work extra and in respect of which your line manager previously said you should take TOIL (and 2nd manager concurred when your manager decided not to honour what she'd told you and seek a second opinion). I understand that you are not seeking to take TOIL in respect of your voluntary early starts for convenience.

However, your manager sounds unreasonable and hard work and someone who keeps moving the goal posts in the ways you have said. I wouldn't like to work for such a manager and it would get me down. Further, you do not need to spoken to like a child by anyone, whatever the circumstances.

Again thanks for the responses. I was not looking for a definitive who is right who is wrong. I see all sides and I reiterate on a regular basis and will do again that in terms of the early starts I take full responsibility that I choose to do this. I have come in during pre booked holidays as she asked me to, I’ve no problem doing way over the hours my contract stipulates as I understand this is the norm. I’m not claiming back minute by minutes of time - they get plenty of me - I just was taken aback as someone with excellent attendance and timekeeping - this is recorded on every report I get - that she felt it necessary to be so negative about my early starts - when the time being claimed was absolutely not linked to them, nor ever would be. I always work right up to my end time so no part of my contract is being shifted by me without getting it checked out. It felt like an unnecessary show of “know your place” which I can assure you I do - I dance to her tune constantly to keep the peace and I guess today just frustrated me as it felt very unprofessional on her part yet I would’ve felt silly staying the facts. Thanks everyone for the input. Very interesting.

I don't think YABU at all, it's a bit unfortunate that your first few posts gave the impression you were looking for TOIL in respect of the early mornings.

It seems you're a bit reluctant to rock the boat but I really think you need to seek written clarification of company policy on this from HR. This isn't something that should just be left to your managers whim! She told you previously that you could take time in lieu, now she's giving you a dressing down for daring to request it, which is it? You're entitled to know.

TBH your manager sounds like someone who's very focused on asserting her authority with little thought for what is fair and reasonable. I would be requesting a meeting to discuss further and I would avoid any suggestion you are looking for a favour. You were told you could have this in in lieu, what has changed, why has it changed, what does this mean going forward in terms of working extra hours or coming in while you're supposed to be on leave? It's very much one way traffic isn't it?

cocopops
TBH your manager sounds like someone who's very focused on asserting her authority with little thought for what is fair and reasonable. I would be requesting a meeting to discuss further and I would avoid any suggestion you are looking for a favour. You were told you could have this in in lieu, what has changed, why has it changed, what does this mean going forward in terms of working extra hours or coming in while you're supposed to be on leave? It's very much one way traffic isn't it?

This is a perfect description of the situation. Particularly the one way traffic. No one works as hard as she does, anyone who isn’t as ambitious as her is seen as a failure. Thanks for all views I do see all sides, I just wish managers were consistent and don’t make promises when they want favours themselves then assert authority when the minions call them on said promise.

Blue managers are often very inconsistent unfortunately and I am one . Not everyone gets proper training on actually managing staff and I see some of my colleagues letting a tiny bit of power go to their heads. However you don't just have to put up with that, there are various levels of "management" and you've mentioned that she too has a manager. There must be a policy on this and if not there should be, you're entitled to ask even if that means going over her head.

I know sometimes on MN there's an attitude of just be grateful you have a job but that can go too far. Some managers (such as yours) can forget that actually they and the company are reliant on good staff, especially if you're in a skilled role. There is no way I would accept that flexible translates as whatever an individual manager decides depending on the mood of the day. If the company confirms that TOIL is not available ever then at least you know where you stand and can consider whether you wish to stay in a company that is all take and no give or start looking around at what else might be available.

In all my jobs I've only got TOIL if I worked weekends or overnights and it was agreed upon beforehand - meetings overrunning, working extra during busy times etc are just par for the course.

However if she's treating colleagues differently for no good reason, that's unfair.

Good points...TOIL is probably, actually definitely thrown around as a real benefit of being asked to do extra. Yet every manager runs by different rules.

Someone who reports to me asked to have their lunch v v early today (ie mid morning), didn't say why.

I had no problem with this at all - they work hard, don't take the mickey and hit deadlines as required.

Really don't understand how people expect others to work outside their hours without any give and take.

Op, I would be querying how you get the hours back you work outside your contracted time.

Again lots of great points. I take 15 mins for lunch max...manager makes a point of walking into the communal eating space every day at the mid point of my 15 mins everyday and says - oh sorry your taking your lunch break - when you are down can you pop in / call me. I cannot eat at my desk as it’s inappropriate but I feel she likes to make the point that she doesn’t “take a lunch break” and does use it to make a point. She’s not especially pleasant- I’m aware of this - she’s done a million and one management courses so she always has an answer if you try to tackle her. Thank you again - felt rubbish earlier but perspective gained.

Exactly snow it might be different if this was every second day but generally you'd try to accommodate infrequent requests for flexibility.

Again Blue every manager having different rules is not good enough and if you push it you'll likely find that either there is an existing policy on this or that they realise they need to put one in place.

2 threads and several massive drip feeds