To wonder what some men would have to do for their wives/partners to leave them?

[GretaSBRead]

I seem to be surrounded by shit relationships. Women putting up with shit behaviour because “they’re in love though”. I’m not talking about abuse, obviously that’s a whole other ball game. I’m talking low level just shittyness.

Men who treat their homes like hotels and their wives like a handmaiden.

Low level cheating/messaging/inappropriateness

Women living off pin money whilst their husband is the pub all the time

Men who’s hobbies come above and beyond their families

This friend of mine on FB was unceremoniously dumped by her partner 6 months ago. He’s had the time of his life since then, she’s increasingly fallen apart on social media veering between broken and desperate and hugely airing their relationship laundry. This morning she posts a photo of them kissing and “true love again” with a whole thing about them getting back together last night. He’s woken up and posted “OMG worst hangover ever, I’ve got the fear”. All his mates taking the piss about them being back together etc etc

I just want to shake her and tell her to get some self respect. I want to shake all of them!

How can people think this is love? Or even if it is love why would that mean you have to stay? Love is bollocks

Why are you singling out women as some sort of victim? Plenty of men out there in abusive relationship s

Ffs! Can there ever be a thread on here where someone doesn't storm on to snivel about the Poor Old Menz? This is a predominately female space, one of very FEW. Its mostly women who post here, just let them have one space where they don't have to centre men.

Fwiw I don't know any relationships where the men are being abused. But then I may live a very sheltered life!

I remember a program on e4 about shit boyfriend. One guy was actually filmed on a night out going into a toilet cubicle with another woman.

The girlfriend forgave him and stayed with him. It’s called being pathetic and desperate.

My best friend is in a relationship she shouldn't be. He's worn her down to think she deserves his shit behaviour, cut her off from all her friends except me and is a general dickhead. It's exhausting to watch so must be worse to live through it.

I wish she could see how much more she is worth and deserves.

I think we all need to encourage daughters to spend some time living alone. It is very important to know that you can manage without a partner.
I also think we all need to encourage women to expect better. There is far too much pressure on women to make things work, when really they need to leave.

Financial worries. Fear of doing everything alone (even women doing it all anyway, there's the illusion that they're not when with someone). Fear of change after so long. Not wanting to upset DC. And yes, being very deeply in love with someone so you spend a long time hoping one day they'll love you enough back to change.
I managed to leave a toxic relationship. It wasnt easy, and it's certainly not something I could've done had I been "pathetic" Despite all the truly awful times, we had some amazing times too. Asking him to leave was the hardest thing I've ever had to do. And even now, a small part of me worries I'd take him back if he spoke a few magic words.
It takes a lot of strength to end something you've invested so much of your time and emotion into. I imagine that's why there are a lot of women out there who still haven't reached that point yet.
Sorry for the ramble.

Yes, Georgie'sboat that is exactly it too. Giving up on something you have spent years investing in (and toxic relationships drain you of all your resources) feels like admitting failure or defeat which somehow feels impossible. But recently someone said to me, if I manage to leave and break free, then it will be the opposite of failure. It will be taking control of my life and winning and I had never seen it like that before so that has shifted my mindset a bit. But it is kind of like asking why people don't leave cults when they are unhappy. Being in a long term toxic relationship is psychologically damaging. And if I wasn't living through this myself I would judge too. I would have said "I would never be that woman, it is pathetic" etc too because I am strong in every other way. It is quite hard to justify and explain.

I despair of some of the women I know - one is married to a man who beat his 15 year old son so badly he was in hospital for 4 days - she is still with him. If you won't leave to protect your kids then holy shit you must be a seriously bad place.

Mummadeeze, but that sense of failure/loss cannot outweigh how shit it must be to live that life?

desertmum, that’s awful.

I do think so much of this starts with how parents treat their daughters, not just modelling poor relationships but I have seen fathers who treat their daughters as little princesses who feel they are only the value of their looks and perpetuate the myth that women should be reliant on men, and mothers who make having a boyfriend the number one priority for their daughters, fussing and preening over said boyfriends.

Not to mention the girls growing up in these homes. And the sons being taught that’s how you treat your partner

Yanbu.

Dsis is totally miserable (not even in love with her h any more). He doesn't lift a finger around the house, witholds financial support when she doesn't adhere to his expectations, and is otherwise a nasty narcissistic emotional bully. They have an 8yo dd who is witnessing everything.

Dsis's terminology really riles me, even though I know it's a result of 20 years of systematic brainwashing: "How can I tear my family apart? I feel awful for thinking of doing this to them. I'm not innocent in all this and I have to face up to my part in it," etc. Quite apart from everything bil has put dsis through over the years, my niece needs to know that her parents' relationship is not all she can expect from life. The way her father speaks to her mother is not the way a good, loving person speaks to another.

Yet dsis stays. Because she's totally and utterly dependent upon him for everything and hasn't has a permanent job in 10 years.

I think it's a multi layered issue. Separating is hugely stressful on a practical/administrative level. When you are ground down, lethargic and drained, do you have the capacity to phone up all of your utility companies and mobile phone contract and sky and ask them to change your tariffs/details? Of course you don't. Divorce is the frustrating shitty admin we all put off for months times a thousand.

Practically taking most family homes from barely coping and suddenly needing to fund two homes, one person moving out and the ensuing 'that's my lamp!' Bickering of splitting a life with someone. Who has £2/3k in an account that they could use for rental checks and a deposit?

All of that's beside the emotion of the experience of letting go of your planned future.

Greta it is truly awful - I see her occasionally but cannot be friends with someone who thinks it's ok for her husband to beat her kids. She also has a daughter - god knows what sort of relationships she's going to have in the future. And all her friends know and say that as she's told him to never do it again it's all ok. It's interesting that most of her friends are also in fairly toxic relationships so horrendous behaviour for them is the 'norm' iyswim. Very sad.

Why are you singling out women as some sort of victim? Plenty of men out there in abusive relationships

Yes, it's completely the same . It's not like women are generally having to think about how to continue working and looking after children, often after having stepped back from a career. There is a massive power imbalance and its extremely short sighted to pretend otherwise.

I have many friends in relationships like this, and what it honestly seems to boil down to for them is that they're approaching or past 30 and desperate to settle down and have children. So even if the relationship is crap the alternative (in their eyes) of "starting over" and potentially never having children is much worse.

They also seem to conspire to normalise the bullshit for one another. They sit around complaining and when I say "wow, that's a horrible thing for him to do" I get jumped on with "yeh but that's how all men are, sooner or later they all act the same way". And when I say no, I don't believe that, my partner isn't like that, I get "oh you just haven't been together long enough - just wait until you've been together a few years/ move in/ have children and he'll become an ass too". Have now done all those things and nope, partner still isn't an asshole.

And it drives me crazy on here when I hear people talking about staying for the children. It's awful to think of their daughters growing up thinking that's an acceptable way to let a man treat you. So much more damaging long term than splitting up. But I guess once your self esteem has been eroded to a certain point it's hard to think straight about things like that.

I think society places so much emphasis on 'coupledom' .
I think it's totally fine to be single or have fwb but a lot of people believe there is something wrong if a woman does tnis.
Too much emphasis on being married, having children etc.

It's also financially hard to leave if you have children.

Who will look after them ect
My ex h told me he would not have the children in a weekend, ever, as it would allowed to go out.
Actually be said this to dd1.

Having had some experience with terrible spousal behaviour I can honestly say that the decision to leave has to come from within. I used to wish I could catch him having an affair so that i could leave. Then he did and I stayed. It took nearly a year for me to realise that I needed to leave and I think that’s a big factor for a number of women too.

“Mummadeeze” in five years time you’re going to wish you’d left 5 years ago. Just like you probably do now. Life is too short and too precious to put barriers in you ur way to happiness. I hope you find the courage to leave and allow yourself happiness. It is out there for you.

This is my life right now. I'm well educated, have wonderful friends, a nice job, I'm not hideously unattractive. But I stay with DH who went out drinking at 10am on Friday and who still isn't home from his drinking binge 48 hours later. Who questioned me on why I spent £80 on the weekly food shop to feed our family of 4, yet gambled and lost £500 of our rent money the next day.

It's utterly fucking exhausting. And like an utter twat, I'm pregnant again. I think it's that thing of loving someone so much you hope they will love you back enough to change, and that I believe his false promises and lies, every time. I actually can't verbalise why I haven't left, only that it's like death by a million papercuts, and you become numb to them over time.

There is also the embedded belief that being married outweighs any other relationship status. This is enforced legally too.
Anything else's seen as lesser, so to leave is regarded by many asfailure.

I've seen posts on here from women Who have stayed with cheaters, saying they will never fully trust them again but at least they have stayed together, as if it's a badge of honour.

I can think of a number of reasons why someone would cling to a LTR, especially if they have children.

Maybe you have become close to his family and leaving means losing not only him but a family you have come to think of as your own. Especially difficult if you have step children you love.

Financial. Even if you both work, two households are much more expensive than one and some people will find themselves in poverty.

Many women do not want to give up seeing their children every day. He may well fight for 50/50 residency.

Difficulties over child rearing generally. He may well be less than cooperative after a split and make difficulties about children's routines, friends, sports clubs etc - refusing to do such things on his time, meaning the kids miss out.

If you think splitting up will result in fewer arguments, you could be on for a shock. I have had more arguments with my ex since splitting than before. Things like Xmas arrangements and child access are a constant issue.

If there has been infidelity, you could end up with your children being parented by the OW while they are with their father. This is galling to say the least.

Add to this a lot of pressure from family or friends to work it out for the sake of the children and I think it's clear that for many people it has to be truly intolerable to get to the point of leaving.

I have cousins married into a particular culture- I won’t say which. In that country, divorce is a woman’s ‘failure’ and a divorced woman is a ‘whore’, not likely to ever get a ‘decent’ man. No one would want a divorced woman to be in a relationship with their son, the equivalent af setting up your brother with Myra Hindley on day release. The men have a pass to behave as arses. Even educated ‘westernised’ women put up with it because they know they would be outcasts, but also their children and parents would be ‘shamed’ if they left.

Also if they started a new relationship it would have to be with someone ‘foreign’ and mean giving up social contact within that culture. Think Victorian times and mores.

Saying you stay with someone because you ‘love’ them even though they treat you like utter dirt. It’s not love though is it? There is no love in relationships like that.