To think that adults should cycle on the road

[LoopyLou1981]

It’s been a long time since I’ve been organised enough to get up (and get 2 kids up) and out early enough to walk to the station instead of getting the bus.
On a 2 mile walk, I’ve been ‘dinged’ at by 3 cyclists to get me to move over on the pavement so they could get passed.
Is this a new thing?! Our roads aren’t narrow or any more dangerous than any others. AIBU to think they should be on the road?!

The real enemy out there is the motor vehicle, its a lethal, dangerous, polluting box of metal, killing thousands each year. Yet a handful of cyclists on the pavement get everyone's back up

Yes. This. Exactly.

As for "superior personal judgement" I fail to see how I am a danger to pedestrians where I slow down for them, stop, get off my bike, walk around them and get back on. Or how I can be a danger when there aren't any pedestrians on a pavement (quite often the case on rural roads for example).

You do get the odd fatheaded cyclist who rides straight at you and expects you to disappear but car drivers do it far more often - and with far more dangerous consequences. If I am crossing a side road that I started to cross before they even turned into it, I cannot just disappear. Yet instead of driving slowly and giving me time to cross, they rev up the engine, full throttle, and drive at me. How is that ok?

Cyclists on pavements are really not the problem.

Why does it have to be either / or? It's possible to be furious with selfish cyclists AND with reckless motorists. And, for that matter, pedestrians who walk out in front of traffic or have their heads stuck in their phones.

My problem is the dual use bike/pedestrain bits you are going along quite nicely (not fast) and every 3/400 yards it stops being a dual use and reverts to pedestrian only then 30 yards further on it's dual again - why?

Am I supposed to levitate over those 30 yrds? There isn't a dropped kerb to go on the road (and indeed the pavelment is on the 'wrong' side of the road to slip on to it) so what do I do?

I have a disability so I can't walk easily - my bike has given me a freedom I haven't experienced in years

So why won't councils actually ride on the paths they design to see how crap it it - passing trees with roots that have broken the pavement - sliding between pavement furniture (poles & posts & signs) whcih are barely wide enough to get between? stopping and starting at every drive way to check it's safe to cross? or the pootleng happily along when the lane/path disappears completely and you are left by the side of a very busy main road, no dropped kerb and no-where to go

And the rules?
at Traffic lights when on the road I am supposed to weave my way forward to get in the box at the front but I get abuse for doing it

at roundabouts I'm supposed to place myself in the centre of lanes to proceed to the right turning and get abuse for doing it?

at other traffic lights I am supposed to come off & use pedestrian lights to proceed - then I get told off by pedestrian and drives alike for avoiding the lights (when the markings tell me I must)

yes there is shit and dangerous cycling, we know. But as the pp you are quoting was saying, the point is that the anger is wildly misplaced and disproportionate - 3000 people a year vs 3 (latest stats). One single car driver killed the equivalent of annual cyclist incidents in one bus stop smash - everybody tutted then carried straight back on. Why the hell are we not raging about this indifference to life?

The real enemy out there is the motor vehicle, its a lethal, dangerous, polluting box of metal, killing thousands each year. Yet a handful of cyclists on the pavement get everyone's back up

Yes yes yes

I live in London. I can get everywhere by walking, cycling, public transport, with kids, easily. I know so many people who choose to drive. It's polluting, we have a local air pollution problem, our schools have dangerously high levels of air pollution. Cars parked on the streets make it dangerous to cross the road and cycle, cars park on the dropped curb so hard to cross roads with a pram or impossible with a wheelchair. Congestion from cars make it hard to cross the road and dangerous to cycle, and you are breathing in fumes as you walk. Cars make it dangerous to let kids have freedom to walk ahead of you, or play outside. At school drop off and pick up parents park on double yellow lines and leave their engines running. Buses run late because parking on both sides of the road means the roads become single file.

And when the Mayor proposes building more cycle lanes and extending the congestion zone lots of people object, oh I will have to pay more money to drive around, cars will have fewer lanes. I am sick of the selfishness of people who could easily get around without a car but choose to make their life a little easier and harm everyone else. People say "oh it takes as long to drive here as walk, ha ha" but still drive.

When I take the bus there are lots of elderly, disabled, wheelchair users, people with children there, although obviously some people can't use public transport looking at the queues of traffic it is mainly working age adults travelling alone and I'm sure most of them don't have disabilities.

Anyway, I know this wasn't exactly what the thread is about, but the anger that gets directed against the small number of irresponsible cyclists Vs the unquestioning acceptance of the harms of car drivers in cities is illogical and utterly bizarre.

Cyclists can’t have it both ways. On the road cars, quite rightly, must pass them with care as they are the vulnerable road user. If they use the pavement legally, they should demonstrate the same care to those on foot, as pedestrians are the more vulnerable.

This, absolutely. And as they're the ones breaking the law, a bit of courtesy while doing it wouldn't go amiss either.

'Cyclists can't have it both ways' - as it is cyclists don't have it either way. They are hated by drivers and pedestrians alike. They are welcome nowhere.

Oh such melodrama.

Not sure it's that bad. Given that the majority of adult bike commuters are also car owners (such as me) and from time to time we are also peds!

And yes we seem to have an absurdly backward idea of transit arrangements in this country, where car driving has a 'protected' status against all sense and well being.

'What is an insult is to ignore the accounts of fatalities, injuries and near misses caused by pavement cyclists recounted on this thread'

About 2 to 3 people die each year due to cyclist collisions and even they don't all happen on the pavement. More people die from bee stings each year

@FrancisCrawford
Its a massively disproportionate response to a small problem and an insult to all the cyclists that die on the road each year

No, it isn’t.

It’s illegal to cycle on the pavements because it puts pedestrians at risk.

What is an insult is to ignore the accounts of fatalities, injuries and near misses caused by pavement cyclists recounted on this thread.

Yes it is illegal and it is also a minority of cyclists who do it. The majority are normal law abiding road users just like you.

But again - you are completely missing the point that motor traffic is your worst enemy. It kills and seriously injures 99.9% of all road/path users directly, and god knows how many more through pollution, obesity and other linked causes of death. We need to start focusing on the real danger to your health, not the 0.1%.

I'm a club cyclist, road.

No I don't cycle on pavements as I tend to cycle on rural roads which has its own share of dramas.

Would I cycle on a pavement in a town? Probably not, but then I wouldn't use an urban cycle lane with decent road wheels either. They're very badly maintained, covered in debris and the risk of hitting a pedestrian is too high for me.

Is there any excuse for riding on the pavement - my 5 yr old will only ride there, but an adult - Nah.... why would you?

I am a driver, cyclist, pedestrian and frequent user of public transport. In the case of OP, YANBu, but it's incredible how much anticyclist feeling is out there. On my commute to work there is option of shared cycle path/footpath or road. The shared cycle path/pavement is full of broken glass and terminates unexpectedly in places spitting you right into most dangerous parts of the road. Sometimes I use it - carefully and slowly as sharing it with pedestrians. Sometimes I go on the main road. The number of drivers who honk me, shout abuse, drive up close behind and overtake too close to intimidate me.... Because in their humble opinion I should be on the cycle path. They have no clue about what that entails or why it might not be appropriate. It's disgusting and pathetic.

Anyway I am sick of the venom directed at cyclists. In the case of OP YANBu but then everyone chimes in with how they are all crap. So many nobbish and dangerous drivers too. I try to drive less but when I do, I am very mindful of other vulnerable road users and pedestrians.... So many drivers just don't have a clue though and I don't understand why it's always cyclists hat get it in the neck?!

Yes quite. I ride a lot in heavy traffic as a commute. An hour each way.
I could fill the air waves with incidents of driver and ped rudeness, dangerousness and/or illegal behaviour ( drivers complaining about riders and red lights is my favourite!) on most trips.

So when posters bang on about stories of once a cyclist was rude to them my eyes roll skyward.

Meh. Does it matter? I don't think it's the end of the world if they ride on the pavement a bit.

Has anyone seen this?
www.youtube.com/channel/UCi0j5D5Ez0CxN4tuOXGuSqA

I have had drivers try to knock me off my bike by shouting very loudly as they drove past and banging on the side of the van, this was in busy traffic so it's not too much of a stretch to imagine them actually pushing me off on a quiet country road

Are you sure that's the right link @ohfortuna? I'm getting some weird channel for body building?

I'm not sure what happened there, here is the right link!

@FrancisCrawford Nobody has denied road fatalities. But the thread is about pavement cyclists

Fair enough. Then we are all in agreement, and have been all along - the people who ride bicycles dangerously on pedestrian footpaths are tossers.

Given that, I'm not sure what the point of the thread was unless it was the usual call to arms to start slagging off cyclists again?

@shotsfired, I'm not sure what the point of the franciscrawford's account is unless it's the usual call to arms to start slagging off cyclists again?

motor traffic is your worst enemy. It kills and seriously injures 99.9% of all road/path users directly

Have you got a link for that? While I can see that impact by a motor vehicle is likely to be the primary cause of transport deaths, I'd be very surprised if the driver was culpable in 99.9% of cases.

I knew 2 people who were killed by cars because they were too pissed to cross the road safely. I'm sure every driver has had at least a few instances where a more vulnerable road user has crossed their path without looking properly, especially since people took to crossing roads while looking at their phones and listening to music.

I'd also be intrigued to know the breakdown between cars, LGVs and HGVs. Although I think HGVs are generally driven more safely, the death toll when they're not tends to be much higher.

The post doesn't say the driver was culpable on the cases just the deaths involved vehicles not bikes.