Aibu to think my mum is a narcissist?

[crabbiepattie]

So I recently lost my father at the young age of 63. That was 5 months and 11 days ago.
My mum and dad divorced when I was 7. So that's like 28 years ago. I didn't ha e the best relationship with my father but losing a parent isn't any easier with a strained relationship.
Went for luch with my mum today and such as life...got a phonecall off the coroner regarding dad's cause of death.
I took the phone call half way through lunch with mum, but away from the dinner table. Came back to the table and told mum who had phoned. Her response was to start talking about the time that her Mum (my nain) had passed away.
She does this a lot. Turns every situation or problem to it being her going through the same situation but 10 times worse.

AIBU to think that she is a narcissist and that real sympathy will never come from her?

Narcissism is a diagnosable clinical disorder that causes people to be incapable of empathy. It isn't possible to diagnose someone on the basis of one anecdote. Many people are attention seeking, bad at offering sympathy or just awkwardly incapable of saying the right thing without being narcissists. It might even have been your mum trying to show that she can relate to your pain because she has been through the same herself.

That said, I totally understand why her behaving this way was unhelpful and hurtful to you, and I'm so sorry you've lost your dad. I hope you're ok and that you have other people in your life who are more tactful and understanding to support you

If your mum is a narcissist you would have known it well before now.
I think it’s possible she was trying to relate to your feelings of loss but not going about it the best way.
Sorry for your loss

Sorry to hear about your dad

Well, your mum... possibly, of course, but narcissism is bandied about far too frequently and freely on MN. It is a condition diagnosed by s psychiatrist or psychologist.
Sometimes people are just selfish, self-centred and thoughtless.

Similarly people speak of OCD and being depressed on here too casually.

My mother has an official diagnosis, although she denies it. I was emotionally manipulated and abused from a very young age. I do not ever remember my mother being kind and pleasant unless it was a means to achieve something. I am nearly 60 and have been no contact for years but it has left its mark and resulted in ill judged relationships etc. on my part. Living with a narcissist is horrendous and were she one you would have known it a long time ago.
I'm sorry she is so selfish and I"m sorry you lost your father.

She's not a narcissist but probably doesn't really want to or know how to deal with your grief over a man she divorced 28years ago.

She's in a no win situation with you on this one.

The thing is through, whether it is diagnosable or not, whether it is down to selfishness or a particular condition, the end result is the same: you feel uncared for, overlooked and maybe even unloved.

Have you tried raising it with your mother and telling her how you feel when she turns everything round into talking about her? If she doesn’t try and understand, or turns it against you in some way, ‘why are you overreacting, I was showing you I understand, you’re oversensitive’, then you’ll know that she is unlikely to change. It’s very painful when you have parents who have never been attuned to your feelings. People who have had this can never understand it because it is something they completely take for granted, it has been there for them since day one.

You may have to confide in caring friends or a partner and try not to talk to your mother about things that are painful to you.

Sorry for your loss

My mum does this all time - incapable of the to and fro of a conversation and just makes a series of statements about herself and never asks you a question. To the extent that she doesn’t even ask about our baby who was born 4 weeks ago and who she loves. She just launches into a series of stories about herself.

She is otherwise normal and I can’t work out if it is something to do with ageing or something about that generation of women.

I have told her before to remember to ask lots of questions at social events but she just cannot seem to do it!

So I massively sympathise with you but I don’t think theres anything they can do to change!

Her response was to start talking about the time that her Mum (my nain) had passed away.
She does this a lot. Turns every situation or problem to it being her going through the same situation but 10 times worse.

From what you’ve said, it doesn’t sound like she was playing a game of one upmanship with you. Rather just trying to relate to your experience through the lens of her own.

Was she supportive at the time of your father’s death?

Lots of people try to show solidarity and understanding by sharing their own similar experiences. It's not always done skilfully but it's usually well meant. When my father died, it happened all the time.

It might be clumsy but it doesn't indicate a rare clinical personality disorder.

She’s trying to relate.

I'm sorry for the loss of your Father. I think Greenster post is very well written with good advice.

My best mate is a psychologist and I have discussed my Mothers behavior to her in detail, she does fit the criteria.

To give an indication of extreme manipulation she forced my brother to drown unwanted kittens when he was twelve. She is in her nineties now and veers between charming consultants and abusing her carers. The stories of her shenanigans over her lifetime are fantastical, she draws people to her like a moth to a flame and then enjoys destroying them.

It sounds like she's only making conversation...I know that in my town if someone dies others will talk about when they lost their husband/parent etc...

Sorry for your loss OP.
It does sound like she was disinterested and didn't have any tact.
I don't think many people with narcissistic personalities actually get diagnosed. Most wouldn't even entertain the idea of it being a possibility. Deny, deny, deny...

Bloody hell Peanut , that is terrible, what an awful thing to do, your poor brother and those kittens.

Just majorly self obsessed probably. Mine is the same, as was hers. My main aim in life is to break the cycle.

Really sorry for your loss.

monstera

narcissism is bandied about far too frequently and freely on MN. It is a condition diagnosed by a psychiatrist or psychologist

I have to disagree. Maybe I hang out on different bits of Mumsnet but whenever I've heard people on here talking about narcissism I've found that they are normally pretty familiar with both the diagnostic criteria and the behaviour of the person they're potentially labelling. And I think that's fine. This is an anonymous forum, nobody is being libelled, so people are using the concept of NPD and personality disorders in general to try and get some insight into the behaviour of people who are causing them problems in their lives. IMO that's about the most useful thing you can do with the concept of NPD because the vast majority of people who have it are never going to see a psychiatrist - it's a feature of the condition that they very very strongly believe that any problems they might have with personal relationships etc are caused by the other person.

I'm no shrink but no I don't think u mum's a narcisst(sp). My mother is, and I would be shocked at the high level of care she was showing if she came out with wot ur mum did.

Comparing our own life experiences is very common in an effort to show empathy (most of us don't even realise we do it) but is often quickly labelled as me me me. I myself have been guilty of it on occasion but had nothing but the most purest of intentions ie just a few months ago a friend told me his nan had died. I was apologetic and offered help if needed etc but then went on to advice him not to see her once she was at the funeral home as it was the worst thing I have ever seen. Now some ppl might hear that and think how self centered it is to bring up something like that but it was my way of trying to help.

Also it may be worth remembering that she was married to ur dad and must have loved him at some point (if not still in some small way) and may be grieving herself, not only for ur dad's death but because her daughter is in pain too and she doesn't know how to help/make it stop
x

Thanks for all the replies.

To put a bit more context - she cried an awful lot when she found out my dad died. To the point that my step dad brought it up when we arrived at their house one day.
"She's been crying on the bed for days, I dont know why she is being like this"

She also kept reminding me over the last 5 months that my dad wasn't nice to her and apparently beat her. - why would or should that be brought up now? I just don't understand her motives. What is she gaining from telling me my recently deceased father wasn't nice to her??

I think she was trying to empathise with you OP. By sharing a situation where she felt as you did. Perhaps awkwardly, but it does sound like she tried.

His death may have brought a resurgence of painful memories which she suppressed. The DV was probably incredibly traumatic for her.

I think she is trying to process quite complicated feelings about your father's death. She is probably sharing with you because you knew him best and she thinks you will understand

It sounds as if she is quite emotionally immature - rather than trying to be cruel

I just don't understand her motives. What is she gaining from telling me my recently deceased father wasn't nice to her??

It sounds as if she’s working through her emotions/grief re your father’s death too, albeit in an insensitive way.

Do you not believe that he hit her?

Narcissism is a spectrum and we all have some degree of narcissism (a healthy degree hopefully). Some people like movie stars can show higher levels of narcissism.
People with narcissistic personality disorder are a whole other kettle of fish and they are unlikely to seek treatment as toomuchtooold said. There narcissism likely stems from neglect or abuse as a child, which doesn't make them easier to be around to be fair but I feel it helps somewhat to think they are somewhat stuck in a toddler mentality/look at me attitude.
Anyway, there isn't much information in your post, but it sounds like your mum's attitude is fairly selfish when you are expecting her to support you. I think you will need to find support elsewhere, perhaps don't see her too much for a bit.

She also kept reminding me over the last 5 months that my dad wasn't nice to her and apparently beat her. - why would or should that be brought up now? I just don't understand her motives.

My father was abusive and that just made his death all the more complicated. I don't know if I could say it was more painful, since I don't think grief is a quantifiable competition, but it certainly complicates matters.

Please remember that he isn't 'just' your father, he's her ex and father of her children, and presumably she loved him once. His death is likely to bring up pain she is no longer used to feeling after 25 years of being divorced.

Maybe I hang out on different bits of Mumsnet but whenever I've heard people on here talking about narcissism I've found that they are normally pretty familiar with both the diagnostic criteria and the behaviour of the person they're potentially labelling.

I find they're never clinical psychologists, they're people who don't like their relatives. A really, really bad situation for making a serious clinical diagnosis of a very rare personality disorder.

Why do so many people want so badly for their mothers or brothers or whatever to be actual narcissists? They can still be arseholes or abusive and you don't need a diagnosis to be justified in protecting yourself from them. If anything, a personality disorder makes them less responsible for themselves, so you should be making the allowances.

I am sorry for your loss, OP. A lot of people will be feeling it in different ways.

Pooryorick guilty as charged - I am not a clinical psychologist and I don't like my mother. But the reason I don't like her is that she was emotionally and sometimes physically abusive to me all through my childhood. I agree that the behaviour, and not the mental illness, is what you need to consider when you decide how to deal with someone like this - but if you've been abused by someone in this way from childhood it's very difficult to see their behaviour as anything other than "just how they are". I mean, that's part of abuse - to make you believe that it's done out of love. When I eventually went to therapy, the psychologist was, as you say, well able to label my mother's behaviours as abusive without having to label her with a mental illness. But I'd never have even gone to therapy if I hadn't read about NPD. I'd still be in contact with my mother, watching her fuck up my kids and wringing my hands about her without ever joining the dots.

I guess maybe there are some awful people just looking for an excuse to dislike their family member but I don't think it's worth discouraging the people who actually genuinely are dealing with someone with a malignant PD from speaking up. Because you know, when people come on here and say "narcissism is way overdiagnosed by all these amateurs" it's not the arseholes that get put off, it's the people who have actually been abused.