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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think that Anne Hegerty was only stating the truth?

103 replies

derxa · 15/03/2018 10:31

On TWS today AH was discussing the gender pay gap. She didn't think that there was an old boys' network nowadays. Paris Lees disagreed.
Anne said 'Well you would know. You used to be a boy.' My jaw dropped.

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derxa · 15/03/2018 14:12

It wasn't cut out. Not in my TV, anyway... I watched it on plus 1 and saw it in all of its awkward glory. That's good then.

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sidewayswithatescotrolley · 15/03/2018 14:27

How is Anne fabulous if she's denying the existence of the things that keep women excluded?

Nobody has to be perfect to be fabulous. You can be brilliant for one thing and wrong about another.

sidewayswithatescotrolley · 15/03/2018 14:28

’ve just read something on Twitter where people are asked to lobby/make aware their local reproductive health and abortion clinics to make sure they realise that men who have transitioned will still need their services

Is that used to be men or now are men? But if they have actually transitioned, either way, why would they need the services?

PositivelyPERF · 15/03/2018 14:52

You can still get it on On Demand. It’s about 51 mins in. There’s no doubt that Anne simply does not like PL and didn’t appreciate PL contradicting her. It was a put down, but considering the crap PL comes out with regarding women, I don’t have any sympathy for him.

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NoSquirrels · 15/03/2018 14:59

@sidewayswithatescotrolley

Is that used to be men or now are men?

They're talking about FtT (born female, now living as a man) or "genderqueer" people, who don't like to be considered as women or any "gender".

But if they have actually transitioned, either way, why would they need the services?

Because 'transitioning' in the modern context often doesn't involve surgery. So all reproductive organs are intact and can be used. Therefore a 'man' with a womb can get pregnant if another man impregnates him.

It used to be the case that in most cases of 'transexuals' (a word that is now not generally thought to be PC), gender dysphoria meant that that person would be horrified at the thought of using their natal sex organs as it would remind them that they are not the gender they believe themselves to be. So surgery, or certainly not having PiV sex if you were a trans man.

That's now not really the case - as gender is fluid, so too is the definition of trans, and how and where and why you have sex and with whom is also none of anyone else's business (as it should be) until you get pregnant via a penis in your man vagina, and then reproductive services must remember that you are a pregnant man with a male 'womb' ...

It's quite hard to get your head around.

I actually don't care if people still retain their natal sex organs - I think genital surgery etc sounds horrific and is in now way something that should be forced upon someone just to conform.

But I do object to all the confusing double-speak around male vaginas, female penises and chestfeeding/chest cancer etc etc.

Being a woman (or a man) is primarily about biology, whether you like it or not. It does none of us any favours to try to rewrite this.

Inch · 15/03/2018 15:00

I’m a bit dismayed at responses like Awbabyspiders frankly ... you know, she has a ‘disability ‘ and isn’t responsible... what kind of we’ll meaning chop logic is this?
Ms Hegerty is a highly intelligent woman and can patently argue and discourse logically, which shows she has greater ability than many posters .

Truth is frequently uncomfortable, rarely absolute but a great catalyst for debate. Good for Ms Hegerty!

Inch · 15/03/2018 15:00

Well meaning doh

NoSquirrels · 15/03/2018 15:01

Sorry, should read:
transexuals' (a word that is now not generally thought to be unPC)

NoSquirrels · 15/03/2018 15:01

Argh!

transexuals (a word that is generally now thought to be un-PC)

PositivelyPERF · 15/03/2018 15:16

transexuals (a word that is generally now thought to be un-PC)

Not by some of the transsexuals who post on here.

hmcAsWas · 15/03/2018 15:19

Yes I meant to type she prefers men to women Princess - another one of my brain farts I'm afraid

NoSquirrels · 15/03/2018 15:47

@PositivelyPERF indeed - the whole thing is such a mind-fuck to a 'lay person' who is otherwise really sympathetic to inclusion of everyone.

Sex = gender, apparently (because biology doesn't matter any more so the terms are interchangeable for most purposes), but transsexual = unPC, because we're all about gender now not sex, don't you mislabel me...

NurseButtercup · 15/03/2018 15:55

@nosquirrels

Thankyou for your post and specifically this:

*But I do object to all the confusing double-speak around male vaginas, female penises and chestfeeding/ chest cancer etc etc.

Being a woman (or a man) is primarily about biology, whether you like it or not. It does none of us any favours to try to rewrite this.*

I agree it's very very confusing. As a soon to be qualified nurse this is not being discussed in any of the student forums or in lectures Confused

So I'm grateful for all the posters on mumsnet who are discussing this.

ilovegin112 · 16/03/2018 10:36

Anne isn’t on the Wright stuff this morning and I think they’ve issued an apology to paris , think what you will about that

derxa · 16/03/2018 10:39

I've just phoned them up to complain. I'm actually shaking. I told them that not everyone agrees with their standpoint and that it's an erosion of women's rights.

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Trinity66 · 16/03/2018 10:42

It's very wrong to have someone who spent his life as a man in an argument where he's speaking as if from a womans prospective but the person on the other side of the argument isn't allowed to say that they spent most of their lives as a man Hmm Whilst I don't necessarily agree with Annes opinion on this subject making her or anyone else apologise on her behalf for bringing up a pretty valid and very relevant point to do with the argument is absolutely ridiculous

Awwlookatmybabyspider · 16/03/2018 10:51

Well we all knew that was coming. AH being taken off the show.
The world's cracked its bleeding face. No one can say anything.

RightOnTheEdge · 16/03/2018 10:57

I saw this yesterday. It was one of the most awkward things I've ever seen Shock Grin

Anne Diamond has just apologised about it on The Wright Stuff.
I don't think an apology from them was needed. Maybe Anne should have apologised in person to Paris for being a bit rude but only if she felt like she wanted to.

RightOnTheEdge · 16/03/2018 10:59

Oh no! Is she really being taken off the show? Angry

EllieMe · 16/03/2018 11:00

Paris did used to be a boy, why is the truth an issue?

PsychoPumpkin · 16/03/2018 11:00

I’m as gender critical as they come but Lees past was completely irrelevant to the debate and Anne used it purely as a personal attack. There’s a time and place for ‘truth telling’ and embarrassing a person on live TV is not ok.

I agree Anne was telling the truth though.

EllieMe · 16/03/2018 11:01

Plus Anne has autism - hence is very literal. She's being sacked because she has a disability. Nice.

SpringMayHaveSprung · 16/03/2018 11:03

My kids are getting the blunt advice from me to not tell the truth in the school/ university/ workplace.

Nice world we've made.

NoSquirrels · 16/03/2018 11:10

It was irrelevant to the argument at hand (old boys clubs) and so was extremely rude by the usual social norms, even though it was literally true.

But rudeness is not usually a reason to remove someone from the TV and issue an apology on behalf of the show - that's usually reserved for swearing etc.

It's interesting PL hasn't spoken out in any negative way - I think she knows she'd be on the wrong side of an argument about the autism spectrum and the undeniable truth that she did used to be a man, which she is very public about.

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/anne-hegerty-paris-lees-transgender-wright-stuff_uk_5aab85a1e4b0337adf82c10b

It was a weird combination of people to choose to discuss the gender pay gap anyway.

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