A year behind at school "probably won't catch up" AIBU to think child is being failed?

[LittleOwl153]

Parents evening this week. After alot of prodding teacher informed my that dd is a year behind in maths and 6months or so behind in writing (yr4 so working at yr3 maths and beginning yr4 writing now).
I asked what they were doing and what we could do to support her catching up and was told that she probably won't ever catch up. I was so stunned by this that I didn't ask further though I do plan to go back and ask more.

I've known she is behind in maths for a while - but not writing. School, seem to have a policy of telling parents that they are progressing/Not progressing but not actually where they are in relation to peers/curriculum expectations. I have asked before for extra work or details of what they are short of so j can support but just get told to work on Times tables (which she is ok at and does work on at home along with reading/spelling).

So am I unreasonable in thinking that at 8yrs old a child should not be written off? That there must be something that can be done to assist her to catch up and that catching up is a reasonable expectation? I can't imagine what the SATS in yr 6 are going to do to her if she is a year or so behind at that stage.

OK, what you have to remember is that teachers are only human, and say things when they are tired or stressed that are patently not true.

It is just one teacher who has said this right?

Honestly I would ignore that.

One must remember in life, that people do talk a lot of nonsense.

I don't think any school would tell you where she was in relation to her peers, exactly, these days.

I had one teacher, tell me my daughter would be a failure in life, because she couldn't grip her pen well and form letters. She was four at the time...

Honestly just keep helping with times tables and so on, she will be fine.

Also, please remember that SATS are nothing to do with pupil attainment as such, but are to do with how well the school is doing.

I've had that attitude with a few teachers though most have suggested some things we can do.

We’ve been shocked especially with DS at low expectations and wondered if it was assumptions about abilities of the mainly working class kids in their schools. In fact both recent inspections of their school highlighted low expectations as problems.

There does seem to be a school of thought with particularly with maths that either you are good or not and that's it.

I feel like I'm on Mathsfactor promotion today - but that what we turned to and it's done well for our children all ahead and top sets now.

There are free sites like Khan Academy and other paid for ones - if you go to Primary section on here there be posters with suggestions. Little and often is the Key with everything

We’ve been rather taken back at amount of extra support and time and money our children have needed – though most of the teachers are far more dedicated than ones I or DH had as children. IME teachers also tend to be better when the children start to show visible progress – more willing to offer suggestions and support.

Is she making progress even st her own pace?

I would make an appointment wigh the class teacher and senco to allow for things to be discussed in more detail than you can at parents evening

Thanks. Yes I appreciate teachers are human (I am one - though my students are adults!)
I'm not expecting comparisons within class it's a small school would be obvious even if anonomised. But we struggle to get comparison to government expectations/national averages.
I'm not really bothered by SATS results but thinking of the stress it will put my DD under if she starts the process a year behind - a process that seems to be stressing the strongest students let alone the weaker ones.

i always wonder why children are not made to redo years in this country if they need it. If they need to spend a lot of time with tutors to catch up, it's not really fair on them.

OP, of course your child cannot be written off at 8! Have you have local mums group where you can find what the best resources are in you area?

Hi op, I was a year ish behind at school when I was about 8, my mum bought the same text books etc and we did it at home too. I caught up by last year of primary and too set for maths in secondary. I’ll always after work harder than others though I think.

I have a friend who was told something similar when her child was in Y5. Poor SATs but then had additional help in Y7 and since then has not looked back. Now taking 3 A levels and has good Uni offers.
Sometimes is about the teaching, or how ready the child is, or any number of other factors.
I think you need to go back and discuss in more detail. Good luck

To be fair the teacher probably meant that the child won't "catch up quickly" rather than "catch up at all". Given the child's age they will be changing school soon enough, and the teacher just means there is little chance of the child catching up with their peers before they move onto the next stage of education.

I'm sure with a concerted effort and support from you, the child will be able to reach a basic standard of literacy and numeracy by the time they leave full time education. They will just need help and targets from you, you need to encourage them to work in the evenings, at weekends and in school holidays.

I think it's hard. As in terms of 'catching up' your child would need to make faster progress compared to their peers (to cover the gap and current curriculum). This would be difficult for many children who are not at the same level as their peers.

Whether she can or not is probably determined by why she has 'fallen behind'.....does she require more repetition and input (something you could provide at home) would she learn better in another way (possibly trickier to discover and then make changes) did she miss much school (illness?) Or is there something else going on?

Without EP input it's probably really difficult to pick apart.

First of I was a year ahead at primary school and it made absolutely no difference by the time t came to Highers so I think it’s much more fluid than we’d all like to believe.
Does your dd have any additional needs? My ds has a sensory impairment , kids with his impairment are on average 2 years behind their peers. We’re trying to change that but once’s these averages get banded about it’s easy to get complacent.
There are so so so many resources available for additional support but first must be the additional support for learning in the school (not sure what it’s called in England).
You’ve had a shock, I am familiar with parents night shocks but look at it as now you have all the information and can make a plan to move forward.

Given the child's age they will be changing school soon enough and the teacher just means there is little chance of the child catching up with their peers before they move onto the next stage of education.

They are yr4 - so have half this year left and two year, Y5 and Yr 6, before moving to secondary school. That's two and a half years left at this school.

The next year teacher might be more helpful but yea keep plugging away at home working on problem areas - it's what we've done and continue to do and they have caught up or with youngest continue to close gap to where they really should be.

Ah. You sound just like our situation.

I am so fed up and angry. I feel like we are now caught in a cycle of low expectations. They are not giving her any intervention in some areas where she is behind because she is making progress (to what - stay behind forever!!)

Our double frustration is that our child is clever but struggles with a terrible memory and no one seems to know what to do about that.

I am facing moving schools because I can't bear the situation continuing and her loss of confidence in herself.

Get a tutor. D was a year behind in maths in year 3, 6 months with her lovely tutor she is at her age and sits on the "middle" table. Worth every penny. Was largely confidence.

For some children, they won’t ever catch up. For example when providing extra support at school to a child with maths and mumeracy difficulty, she will always be behind. She will always find maths difficult due to the way she processes things. She will always be behind her peers, more maths and tutoring won’t change that.
If your child is just a bit behind then she may catch up. If there are other issues then she may never be at the level of her peers. It’s hard to say without knowing the details but yes some child just won’t catch up.

*some children

Her confidence is v low, she has some issues with physically writing (hypermobility) but no SEN support. Tried that route but the SENCO just says she doesn't need support.

School won't, so far, tell us what elements she is struggling with so we have no idea of what she needs to progress. They just say work on Times tables- but that is class homework anyway which she does. It was only at this parents evening that we managed to get out of them exactly how far behind she is and then only in some areas as others are "still being assessed"

Am looking into getting a tutor - initially just to assess and see where the gaps are but don't really know where to start. She will continue to get as much support at home as we can give her.

I think as a parent you know whether your child is working to their potential or not. Some people are well aware that their child's best efforts still won't be average.

Other parents are left banging their heads against brick walls because the curriculum is just not been presented in a way that enables their child to engage with it, with the end result of a child that's behind.

This is the hardest thing to communicate as a parent, as you often come across as unreasonably pushy, but actually our children with SEN, or without damn well deserve schools that want to know why they are behind and aim to get them up to scratch if that is at all realistic.

Amandah I actually think that that is very rarely the case unless there is a very specific SEN which OP doesn't indicate there is. In the case of maths I think it is a case of finding the key that makes it logical for the child and then once they have that their confidence blossoms. Anyway, how can you possibly know if she will or won't catch up without trying various methods with her. I think that you need to put in some effort at home and book an appointment with her teacher to revisit your concerns in a less pressured environment.

Sorry crossed posts OP.

When I left primary school I had a reading age of 16 but my maths was almost non-existent and I had no science, foreign language or anything else. I'd attended a small and poorly performing village school. I went to an excellent secondary school and left with 9 A GCSEs, 4 A-levels and finally got a science degree and became a research scientist. I am not a top professional in my field.

I wouldn't write off any kid at age 8. My daughter is 7 and is about 12 months behind with reading and writing according to her teacher. They have developed an action plan, she is getting extra reading time with a TA we have specifically reading homework. I assume she will catch up and school seem confident she will.

What about her end of the year reports? They are quite detailed and you can clearly see which areas are weaker than others. Unfortunately in my experience there are only two ways to improve your situation, transfer your child to a prep school if you can afford it or do lots and lots of extra stuff after school. I would recommend Kumon, it does wonders to their confidence and attainment. Don't expect the school to do anything about it, sadly there is not enough resources/time and lots of other children that require input.

I'm not sure what the answer is as trying to get her a tutor or doing a lot extra at home may just wear her down and have the opposite effect. Many European countries have a child repeat a year (or move up a year) if they are getting left behind (or excelling). I think it's such a good idea because if they move up not understanding that years work they will just completely drown the following year. I can't understand why uk schools don't do this.

All you can really do I think I'd try and get some extra tasks in everyday. Perhaps she isn't responding well to the way the teacher is teaching as different methods bring out very different results in children. In other words maybe she's a more visual learner or a more hands on learner whereas the teacher is more a 'read this to understand' type. she certainly shouldn't be written off and I'd be a bit at a teacher thinking that instead of trying to come up with ideas with you on how best to help.

I just can't see that being a year behind in yr4 is such a catastrophic delay that it will never be surmounted. She may never be zooming ahead, she may always have to work a bit harder than some others; but will never catch up seems like a ludicrous statement. A normal range in any class is supposed to be between working two years behind or two years ahead. And progress isn't strictly regular or linear.

Ask the teacher what is being put in place to help your child. And find something that you suits you and DD to help with problem areas at home. We like Doodle Maths, but there are tons of maths programs out there - maths factor, mathletics, khan academy, maths whizz, education city, abacus, workbooks from WHSmiths, free worksheets off the internet, tutors etc. etc.

I'm sure the teacher didn't mean that your daughter will never catch up!
Is this the first time that school have ever given you cause for concern about her learning?
Having another chat with the teacher to talk in more detail about her progress is really important to identify targets and areas to work on.
Tutors aren't always the best solution, unfortunately there are some who are happy to take the money, yet make little impact on the child's learning.

Maybe the teacher meant she will never catch up if her progress continues at the same pace? I was in the same situation, but was lucky because we could afford a prep school, after a few years at a prep DC passed all the secondary exams and was offered places in every single school we had applied for. That's after scoring the lowest result in his KS1 SATS in his class.