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Even if you subpoena us, we won't turn up on the Trump threads

954 replies

PerkingFaintly · 12/03/2018 00:02

Oh whoops, here we are.Grin

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3180160-Trump-talk-HOW-MUCH-for-that-inauguration?pg=1

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OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 15/03/2018 22:16

Laura Litvan
@LauraLitvan
WH Chief of Staff John F. Kelly and National Security Adviser H. R. McMaster could be forced out next, per @maggieNYT

Maggie Haberman
@maggieNYT
More Maggie Haberman Retweeted Laura Litvan
Carson/Shulkin bracket a lot likelier sooner per multiple ppl

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 15/03/2018 22:19

Was thinking about Kuciak today. No idea about the political situation in Slovakia but this seems like a positive development

Slovakian PM resigns in wake of journalist’s murder
Robert Fico has been under mounting pressure since the killing of reporter Jan Kuciak

www.ft.com/content/1b94a698-284a-11e8-b27e-cc62a39d57a0

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 15/03/2018 22:26

Congress Could Sneak a Bill Threatening Global Privacy Into Law

gizmodo.com/congress-could-sneak-a-bill-threatening-global-privacy-1823793207

As Congress scrambles to agree on a spending bill, a dangerous piece of legislation that would redefine how law enforcement collects data is being snuck in at the last minute. Through convoluted provisions, the CLOUD Act would give the Executive Branch broad power in deciding how data is exchanged between countries and could severely compromise Americans’ privacy.

[...] The controversial regulations are being pushed hard by lobbyists from the big tech companies and foreign allies like UK Prime Minister Theresa May, the source said.

You may be vaguely familiar with Section 702 of the FISA Amendments Act. It’s the one that allows US intelligence to search, read, and share private electronic messages without a warrant when investigating foreign targets. But data from Americans can get swept up in the incidental collection of that intelligence, which critics of the bill say amounts to a violation of constitutional protections against unreasonable search and seizure. The Electronic Freedom Foundation compares the CLOUD Act to Section 702 and explains how it amounts to a new backdoor around the fourth amendment:

The CLOUD Act has two major components. First, it empowers U.S. law enforcement to grab data stored anywhere in the world, without following foreign data privacy rules. Second, it empowers the president to unilaterally enter executive agreements with any nation on earth, even known human rights abusers. Under such executive agreements, foreign law enforcement officials could grab data stored in the United States, directly from U.S. companies, without following U.S. privacy rules like the Fourth Amendment, so long as the foreign police are not targeting a U.S. person or a person in the United States.

When foreign police use their power under CLOUD Act executive agreements to collect a foreign target’s data from a U.S. company, they might also collect data belonging to a non-target U.S. person who happens to be communicating with the foreign target. Within the numerous, combined foreign investigations allowed under the CLOUD Act, it is highly likely that related seizures will include American communications, including email, online chat, video calls, and internet voice calls.

Currently, the sharing of intelligence and data across borders is possible through mutual legal assistance treaties. When foreign police need data stored in the US, it can be provided as long as the process follows the Fourth Amendment’s warrant requirements. Likewise, if the US seeks data from foreign law enforcement, it must follow the privacy protections of the government it’s petitioning.

The CLOUD Act would weaken those privacy protections and open up a free for all of data sharing. A foreign government could request data about a non-US citizen from a company storing it on US soil without the need for a warrant. It could also intercept communications or metadata of a non-US citizen target in real time. If, by chance, that foreign government collected communications or content from an American in the course of their surveillance, it could then turn it over to US law enforcement. As long as the information “relates to significant harm, or the threat thereof, to the United States or United States persons,” that information could then be used to investigate or criminally charge a US citizen.

To recap: Section 702 gives US intelligence broad power to surveil foreign targets outside the US, and if some US citizens get caught up in it, well, that’s just life. The CLOUD Act gives foreign intelligence broad powers to surveil foreign targets in the US, and if an American citizen gets caught up in it, it could be handed over to US intelligence and be used against them—no warrant necessary.

The EFF joined the ACLU, Human Rights Watch, and many other activist organizations in issuing a coalition letter to Congress opposing the CLOUD Act. The letter outlines the specific issues that need to be addressed in the bill, which “fails to protect the rights of Americans and individuals abroad, and would place too much authority in the hands of the Executive Branch with few mechanisms to prevent abuse.” It highlights specific areas in which vague language could be interpreted in a way that could nullify the protections the bill’s defenders say have been included.

This isn’t just a terrifying prospect for Americans, as many of the world’s largest tech and Internet-related companies are based in the US. The CLOUD Act would put tremendous power into the US President’s hands for how a company like Google might treat the data of a citizen from another country.

Under the CLOUD Act, the US Attorney General and Secretary of State would have to sign off on a foreign data request, certifying that the government in question offers “robust substantive and procedural protections for privacy and civil liberties.” Congress would then have 90 days to pass a resolution blocking the agreement. But let’s say, for example, that President Trump really likes the despotic ruler of the Philippines. He could, theoretically, lean on his embattled Attorney General Jeff Sessions to give the Philippines wide leeway in grabbing data about dissidents that is stored on the servers of American companies. The Secretary of State (likely recently nominated flunky Mike Pompeo) could then concur with Sessions, and Congress would only have 90 days to stop it. If you’ve been paying attention to the way Congress works these days, the idea of both houses coming together to oppose each agreement individually in a short time should be laughable.

We’re told the rush to include this five-week-old legislation in the upcoming spending bill is due to two lanes of pressure. Big tech lobbies are leaning on their senators to get it done and foreign allies are lobbying through back channels.

Apple, Facebook, Google, Microsoft, and Oath all expressed their support for the legislation in a letter released last month. Microsoft is currently involved in a Supreme Court case fighting the US Justice Department’s demands that data stored on an overseas server must be turned over if a warrant is issued by a US court. Microsoft says that’s against the law, and a decision isn’t expected to arrive until June. The CLOUD Act would make that case unnecessary. It’s easy to see why these companies might find it convenient to just remove any legal questions, and submit to the enemies of privacy, but their claim that this legislation “is an important step toward enhancing and protecting individual privacy rights, reducing international conflicts of law and keeping us all safer” conflicts with the analysis of the ACLU and other legal scholars.

Another win for Silicon Valley would come from appeasing lawmakers in Europe. British PM Theresa May has been increasingly vocal with her threats against tech companies if they don’t do more to fight terrorism. In February, May said that President Trump had agreed that the CLOUD Act was “vital” to both nations’ security.[...]

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 15/03/2018 22:27

Ooh, did not realise this!

Pé Resists
@4everNeverTrump
Vanessa Trump can be forced to testify against Don Jr by Mueller once their divorce is final (which can be relatively soon since it's a no-contest divorce). Federal spousal privilege ends when the marriage ends.

www.law.cornell.edu/wex/spousal_immunity

TheClaws · 15/03/2018 22:38

roussette Thank you for your Caesar image. Made me laugh when I needed to today Smile

TheClaws · 15/03/2018 22:38

rousette Thank you for your Caesar image - it made me laugh when I needed to today Smile

TheClaws · 15/03/2018 22:39

Oops sorry for twinning!

LinkyPlease · 15/03/2018 22:44

Another long term trump thread lurker surfacing to say hello and thanks for ask the brilliant research you do.
Also placemarking cos my phone won't let me hit the watch button on this one?!

lionheart · 15/03/2018 23:02

Hello Linky.

apnews.com/9443755a28b3438a875fe5c142534092

lionheart · 15/03/2018 23:17

www.axios.com/the-most-toxic-working-environment-on-the-planet-1521061118-87211185-63b7-468b-aa1b-880f3dcaf524.html?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=organic&utm_content=1100&utm_term=politics

"This is the most toxic working environment on the planet. Usually tough times bring people together. But right now this atmosphere is ripping people apart. There's no leadership, no trust, no direction and this point there's very little hope. Would you want to go to work every day not knowing whether your future career was going to be destroyed without explanation?"

TheClaws · 16/03/2018 00:00

This could make the GOP intel committee look a tad silly, if not a touch complicit.

The Associated Press @AP 4hrs
More
BREAKING: US imposes sanctions on 19 Russians for alleged interference in American election, including 13 indicted by Mueller.

Minimammoth · 16/03/2018 00:17

Does this mean the election could be null and void< eager>

cozietoesie · 16/03/2018 00:28

Afraid not, Mini.

AcrossthePond55 · 16/03/2018 01:16

The Trump Jr divorce may be a legal ploy. Any assets she receives as part of a divorce settlement can't be touched as far as any fines or judgements that may be levied against Trump Jr in the future. Good way to safeguard your money against asset forfeiture.

Assuming those assets were legally acquired in the first place, of course.

AcrossthePond55 · 16/03/2018 01:24

Mini Constitutional scholars have said that NOTHING will invalidate the election, even actual proven interference determined to have affected the outcome. It would be up to the House of Reps to institute impeachment proceedings IF they felt there were legal grounds. Legal grounds would only exist IF they believed that Trump was complicit in whatever shenanigans went on.

TheClaws · 16/03/2018 01:34

BREAKING: Trump decides to remove NSA McMaster. This is according to sources with inside knowledge, so I’d consider it still unconfirmed.

www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-decides-to-remove-national-security-adviser-and-others-may-follow/2018/03/15/fea2ebae-285c-11e8-bc72-077aa4dab9ef_story.html?utm_term=.653f704307b9

AcrossthePond55 · 16/03/2018 01:46

Well, my my my!

TheClaws · 16/03/2018 01:58

Caroline O. @RVAwonk
21m21 minutes ago
More
Today: H.R. McMaster proposes "serious political and economic consequences" for Russian aggression, including "atrocities" in Syria and the "abhorrent nerve agent attack" on Sergei Skripal.

Hours later: Trump decides to remove H.R. McMaster as his national security adviser.

Minimammoth · 16/03/2018 02:02

Goes back to being disappointed in world leaders in general<
Must lighten up......

TheClaws · 16/03/2018 02:03

They’ve been busy - but it shouldn’t surprise anyone.

Laurence Tribe @TribeLaw 28 min

More
BREAKING NEWS: The Trump administration today announced that Russia has successfully launched a cyberattack on our nuclear power grid, has compromised the grid, and can shut it down at will. This is on top of what Russia did to our election. We are under attack by a hostile power.

TheClaws · 16/03/2018 02:07

About the sanctions the US has imposed on Russia today - remember, these are the ones Trump has been refusing to impose for many months. They aren’t new and I’m not even sure if they are complete.

TheClaws · 16/03/2018 02:26

In Fox land, they are concerned with conflating unrelated issues and inciting racial tension.

Fox News @FoxNews 2h2 hours ago
More
.@MarkSteynOnline on @united dog death: "It might well be true that the flight attendant did not hear any barking. But then again, you have to think, well would that mean she wouldn't hear the guy going 'Allahu Akbar?'" #Tucker