Ridiculous to try and sue a university over a "mickey mouse" degree?

[Creambun2]

thetab.com/uk/2018/03/10/a-graduate-is-suing-her-university-for-60000-for-giving-her-a-mickey-mouse-degree-62377

Surely, it is down to individuals to research their university and course appropriately and understand that whatever degree or university you go to, getting the job you want will be mostly about you and your skills?

I agree universities pump out lots of propaganda about "employment prospects" but saying, for example, 90% of graduates employed within 6 months means nothing is 89% of those are not in graduate level jobs.

I guess this is an additional danger in applying without 'local' knowledge
Come on, it takes 30 seconds to google the uni and find its 118th out of 129 with entry standards the third lowest in the whole UK and graduate prospects 506/1000

"Surely she should have done her research before applying and completing the course.

I've got a year 13 ds and we've been researching uni's, their reputation,,courses, employment prospects, student satisfaction etc."

Not everyone has a parent who's able to do this.

I am assuming that had the person making the complaint had AAA at A-level, she wouldn't have been considering Anglia Ruskin in the first place as she would have set her sights a bit higher. 96 UCAS points means that Uni will take students with CCC at A-level.

Everyone KNOWS that a 2:1 (or a first) from Bolton, or Anglia Ruskin, or any of the thousands of other "universities" which have much lower entry requirements isn't the same as a 2:1 from Liverpool, Leeds, Newcastle, Aberdeen. It's not a groundbreaking revelation that you're going to struggle with a degree from that type of institution when you're competing against people who have better A-levels and have therefore gone to a better Uni.

I did a 'Mickey Mouse' degree at a very low-ranked uni (think it's one of the bottom ranked ) and got a 1st. Had a great time, happily employed in a sector where my degree has zero worth on paper but gave me so a huge number of transferable skills and a lot of useful knowledge - because it was a uni that actually acknowledges that it is low-ranking, they put extra effort into teaching vocational skills, preparing students for the world of work and hosting events to build contacts and networks.

Choosing a university isn't just a case of picking the best one and going for it; it's knowing what you want from uni. I had high A Level grades, turned down my offers from high-ranked unis to go to this lower-ranked one because I knew I'd enjoy it more and preferred the feel of the uni. If she wanted a guaranteed job in a top firm in a difficult-to-enter industry, she should have done her research.

Graduate prospects 506/1000 so, pretty much the middle of the pack for graduate prospects then. That's not actually completely unemployable or having taken a Mickey Mouse degree (if they are specialist as someone else suggested). Half the sector is worse for employability.

I know on MN only RG/Oxbridge count, but not everyone, especially from abroad, has mainly A's at uni to get in. This doesn't mean they won't do well, or will be unemployable.

Her particular course might be poor for employability, it's hard to say, but another specifically targeted course for health professionals might be very good in that university. Many of the former poly's have areas of expertise, it's just hard to see them from outside. Overall measures don't tell you very much. Nor do employability stats either really, our Philosophy grads are exceptionally well employed, but I'm pretty sure this is because taking Philosophy at a good uni is a marker of wealth/good connections/being pretty clever, not because they took Philosophy in particular.

"it takes 30 seconds to google the uni and find its 118th out of 129 with entry standards the third lowest in the whole UK and graduate prospects 506/1000"

You have to know there's a ranking in the first place. Not all countries have that.

"Everyone KNOWS that a 2:1 (or a first) from Bolton, or Anglia Ruskin, or any of the thousands of other "universities" which have much lower entry requirements isn't the same as a 2:1 from Liverpool, Leeds, Newcastle, Aberdeen. It's not a groundbreaking revelation that you're going to struggle with a degree from that type of institution when you're competing against people who have better A-levels and have therefore gone to a better Uni."

Not everyone knows that. If someone is the first in their family to go to university or they come from abroad, how would they know that?
Younger people also probably wouldn't know what it means if a uni is a former poly.

I know the debate has moved on a little but.

My cat could get a first from Anglia Ruskin.

🤣

I did Grad recruitment for a city partnership for a lot of years and we took from three unis only. Having to explain to graduates that their degree was effectively not worth the paper it was written on was bloody awful.

I also had a GF of a friend tell me that there was no difference between her Business Studies degree from an ex-poly and one from the LSE.

Both of these examples were before fees were introduced I'm sure it's far worse now. The government have pushed the idea of university education for 50% plus of school leavers but in reality on 10%-20% of jobs need a degree so people are being set up to fail, saddled with debt and not being able to access their career of choice.

I do wonder where first generation students, be they from UK or abroad, get the information and guidance to be able to make informed decisions about their applications, perhaps careers studies in school weren't such a bad idea after all.

is that information widely available? (About employers ranking Unis) Can a 18 year old be reasonably expected to be able to find that out?

Let's just say it took me less than 5 minutes to find that Anglia Ruskin are near the bottom of numerous rankings. Granted employers' attitudes to any given Uni are a little harder to seek out, but even that could have been addressed by calling a few recruiters in her preferred field ... if she had the remotest idea what she wanted to do, that is, rather than just wasting a few more years in pointless, unfocused study

And if a student who's unable to spend that 5 minutes in research is still admitted to Uni, I'd say that's a pretty good indication of exactly what's gone so wrong

When I worked abroad I met a few people with mickey mouse degrees from lower-ranking universities. These were very capable people. Going to a lowly ranked uni doesn't mean you aren't capable of working and learning.

As a PP said, having local knowledge is key here. An HR recruiter in Denmark doesn't have the time to work out the difference between a 1st from Kings College London and a 1st from Anglia Ruskin. So a mickey mouse degree doesn't have to mean doom and gloom forever.

My cat could get a first from Anglia Ruskin.

Didn’t Ben Goldacre get his cat a PhD? (To expose how ‘dr’ * Gillian McKeith has a ‘phd’ from some online degree mill

*not an actual doctor. Obviously.

And if a student who's unable to spend that 5 minutes in research is still admitted to Uni, I'd say that's a pretty good indication of exactly what's gone so wrong

For which the university needs to be held accountable, at least in part.

And yes, lots of information is available about all aspects of every university. From the formal UCAS info, all sorts of UK and world rankings, ratings, student satisfaction surveys, professional sector feedback, student 'journeys' and whole heap of other less formal rankings, blogs, etc.

Every student who applies has to have access to a computer, so lack of internet is no excuse for not doing that research. Libraries, youth clubs, and a whole heap of other organisations offer free support, in the UK. The UCAS system itself is nigh on inexhaustible with the amount of help and information it offers - it walks the student through each step, as in by the nose - and that includes foreign students.

16 - 18 year olds really don't need an adult to help, they just need to be independent readers and self motivated - leaving them to do it themselves makes the whole process almost self selecting!

Apologies if you think that sounds harsh but I spent far too many years dragging lazy student through the process. Every year there were a sizeable cohort for whom actually reading the information, following the advice, making some decisions and then actually applying was just too much.

Oddly, within that sizeable cohort was another distinct group. They were the ones who could arrange a gap year, insurances, passports, discount rates, rail cards, travel itinerary and completing the deferral paperwork always seemed to be a doddle

I once spoke to a Law graduate with a 2:2 degree from Oxford Brooks hoping to get a training contract at a magic circle firm.

I know a few people who have got places there and their parents have spoke about how proud they are that "their child has got into Oxford". It's difficult to know what to say in those circumstances. I've heard the same with a couple of parents of students at UWE saying about being happy they have got into Bristol.

Your knowledge at age 18 (or any age in fact) is only as good as the person giving it to you. An 18 year old from a background where family and friends are not working in high powered jobs is very likely to not have access to good careers and education advice. Google is of some use but only if you know what you are actually supposed to be researching.

On the Big Bang Theory Leonard's family cat was Dr Hoefstatter, although he did agree it was an honorary degree! (sorry, getting off topic, but I like the idea of cats with degrees!)

I’ve heard of 6th form students taking btec’s in health and social care who are hoping to apply to medical school.

At 18 you still take adults opinion as fact a lot of the time. The school environment doesn’t normally teach you to challenge.

I was heavily pushed towards btec back in the 90’s. I was clueless as to what i wanted to do, and saw several “careers advisors” who all told me a btec was exactly the same as an a’level. It was only because the college i wanted to go with didn’t offer btec that i stuck with a’level.

I met many students at uni who hadn’t realised that a psychology BA is completely different to a psychology BSc.

Many parents, like mine, who didn’t go to uni or don’t know anyone who did, the focus is solely on their child “going to uni”. My mother works on the assumption that a uni degree will always better your career opportunities. So thise parents will acually support and even push their kids into crap degrees rather than no degree.

It’s one of those things isn’t it? I know, having been to uni, that beckham studies from solihull university is an utter waste of time and would realise that my child is better off not going to uni at all.

Well said blastomama and Gwenhwyfar. I am curious about how this research is done, particularly if the student doesn't have parents who've done this before.

I cringe when I see fb posts from parents and young people who have been accepted on some Mickey Mouse degree .

In some circles there is still an outdated sense of kudos surrounding getting into university. ANY university to study anything at all.

It’s an utter con

"I am curious about how this research is done, particularly if the student doesn't have parents who've done this before."

Well, yes. Can you not understand that it's more difficult if your parents and teachers don't explain it to you?
Also, a lot of the 'knowledge' isn't even publicly acknowledged. There are things that certain groups know, but are not made public.

I was really shocked to hear people disparaging prince Charles's geography degree, for example. I'm no fan of his, but until that point i had no idea that geography was looked down on. Same with lots of other subjects.

It is a con that has been foisted on us all by successive governments though.

I have a degree from a respected university. It's pure luck in my case, I had no idea that it was more respected than many other universities, because my school didn't factor in that advice and my parents had no idea. I had no idea about recruitment or potential careers either because we were being told at school, even at 17 and 18, that unless we wanted to study medicine or law we were far too young to be thinking about careers of the future. This was before the days of the internet. Thank goodness that my children will have far more information available to them in order to make informed choices.

Your knowledge at age 18 (or any age in fact) is only as good as the person giving it to you. An 18 year old from a background where family and friends are not working in high powered jobs is very likely to not have access to good careers and education advice. Google is of some use but only if you know what you are actually supposed to be researching. Yes, which is why the UCAS procedure is so complete.

Schools have had their careers advice stripped out, VI forms are little better but FE colleges still have a cash pot for careers advice, so there is face to face expertise out there - I'd always suggest a student goes to an FE Open Day and asks LOTS of questions as FE staff seem to know more practical answers (I say that having worked with a lot of ex school teachers who found the FE careers system eye opening).

But yes, careers advice has mainly moved online... we were told a decade or so ago that online was where young people got their information, so that's where it all went!

Hopefully that pendulum will swing back soon - though I have probably been saying that for about a decade

I got a first from anglia ruskin it was ccat then. Only three firsts in my year.

And it's still taboo to actually say the naked truth. That there are too many universities, offering far too many useless courses. In the days of grants or say £1k fees then I'd be willing to overlook it but now we're talking £9k for Football studies at David Beckham University. It's an utter con.

"Many parents, like mine, who didn’t go to uni or don’t know anyone who did, the focus is solely on their child “going to uni”. My mother works on the assumption that a uni degree will always better your career opportunities. So thise parents will acually support and even push their kids into crap degrees rather than no degree."

Exactly this. And I don't think it's totally wrong.
The idea of what is a crap degree changes with time too.
At one point English Lit was seen as a Mickey Mouse degree. Now it's generally respected, although not seen as a money maker and there are newspapers who prefer English graduates to Journalism graduates. I've seen sports science disparaged in newspapers, but it's a very important field and we'll need more and more people knowledgeable in it.