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To think SATC is a terrible representation of women?

156 replies

BlueNeighbourhood1 · 11/03/2018 11:40

I'm 34 now so probably should've watched this in my younger years but I was way too into Friends.

Ive started at the beginning and one season in and Carrie is absolutely awful! She basically has every red flag we say men have but in a woman. Possibly narcisstic and everything is all about her, how was she a role model in the 90's?!

Or is it just me and she's still an icon?

OP posts:
snawdays · 11/03/2018 17:12

I do agree it was of its time, not timeless, but there were good bits - the bit where the Russian tells SJP she’s kidding herself if she thinks the window for having kids hasn’t gone - in fact that character was skewered by that, she’d spent her 30s never really making her mind up about what she wanted, and he called her on that and pointed out that not making a decision WAS a decision.

I find Girls much more souless - couldn’t get through more than the first season.

AnnaMagnani · 11/03/2018 17:21

The modelizer episode! That was great - looking at you Leo di Caprio today Envy

There were some really good discussions about dating and friendship, it just kind of lost it's way.

NorthernLurker · 11/03/2018 17:35

I think Charlotte's second husband is about the only reasonable male character. Steve is spoilt for me by his totally out of character affair in the film.

squoosh · 11/03/2018 17:37

Charlotte's second husband and Dr Robert (played by Blair Underwood) who Miranda dumps (!!!) for goblin Steve.

FrannyAndZooeyGlass · 11/03/2018 17:37

And Charlotte had many interesting sex storylines.

Like the guy who wanted a threesome and groomed and cajoled her until she agreed. But in the end she really did not want to do it.

And how Charlotte's old fashioned ideas about The Rules, not sleeping together on a first date etc did not work out for her at all.

mintich · 11/03/2018 17:47

I saw an interview with the writers who said that they didn't want to main character to be perfect. They wanted her to have flaws and to not always do the right thing. I think that's why people loved the show. The characters were very flawed

UpSideDownBrain · 11/03/2018 18:37

I watched the series twice - the first time when it came out and I was in my 20s, and again 10 years later when I was married with DC.
The first time round I saw Carrie's side, the second time I was cringing at how self centered and awful her behaviour was.
I did like how much Carrie loved her flat and that she was not driven by money very much.
I thought Miranda was really well written.
OP - the episodes do get better and less formulaic as the characters develop.

UpSideDownBrain · 11/03/2018 18:37

I watched the series twice - the first time when it came out and I was in my 20s, and again 10 years later when I was married with DC.
The first time round I saw Carrie's side, the second time I was cringing at how self centered and awful her behaviour was.
I did like how much Carrie loved her flat and that she was not driven by money very much.
I thought Miranda was really well written.
OP - the episodes do get better and less formulaic as the characters develop.

PoorYorick · 11/03/2018 19:19

Can someone give me a link to a story that says SJP had the sex scenes added purely to humiliate KC? I thought for the most part they were genuinely hilarious (or whatever they were supposed to be) until the second film, when the usually fabulous Samantha became an absolute laughing stock - just one reason why it sucked so much arse.

Humiliation is a standard form of comedy. Charlotte shat herself in film 1, Carrie farted after sex in front of Big, Miranda was ribbed for not doing her bikini line and Harry had to do a rear nude scene (I saw an interview with the poor guy who admitted it had been hard - the character wasn't meant to be conventionally good looking or sexy).

On the main point, I agree it's of its time but I still think it's fantastic to have a show about women actually being friends and liking each other, while being flawed and human. And not being punished for having sex. Carrie was always self-centred and awful, even back then, but I guess it was just necessary for the plots and structure to work. I disliked her immensely but it didn't spoil my enjoyment of the show.

snawdays · 11/03/2018 19:39

Hmmm I’m going to have to dig out my box sets and relive my youth!

Eltonjohnssyrup · 11/03/2018 19:52

Yorick, there’s this Perez one.

mobi.perezhilton.com/2017-10-06-kim-cattrall-wanted-more-for-samantha-jones-character-respect-dignity-satc3-new-details#.WqWHemKnyEc

You can also google the interview KC did with Piers Morgan.

If you just google ‘Kim Cattrall humiliated’ a lot come up.

Many of the ones I’ve read were either on the Popbitch Mailout or behind their paywall so I can’t link.

They talk a lot about how KC was given ridiculous storylines which were about things like putting on weight and the menopause. And that SJP repeatedly pushed storylines which were extreme sexually or highlighted KCs age and she was asked to go nude when the other actresses rarely or never had nude scenes. You can see this is true just from watching the shows.

There were constant ‘birthday’ shows for KC and her being ten years older than the others continually referenced. Not that big a deal, until you consider that as an actress, having your age constantly highlighted negatively is potentially career destroying.

auditqueen · 11/03/2018 19:55

I was living in NY at that time - but a completely different life as a postgraduate student. I can see how people lived those lives, but to me they all seemed really stereotypical and none of the characters really resonates with my life or that of my social circle.

It just seemed to tick the boxes of fucked up woman (Carrie), sex addict (Samantha), nice girl (Charlotte) and Career girl (Miranda). It always seemed like something a not very imaginative man would write rather than really thinking about the complexities of being a woman.

Sprinklesinmyelbow · 11/03/2018 19:58

Tbh I don’t think the world was ready for the complexities of being a woman 20
Years ago

VioletteValentia · 11/03/2018 20:06

I like Carrie Blush

Slightlyperturbedowlagain · 11/03/2018 20:09

I loved it back then because it resonated with many aspects of my experience. The whole men not wanting to commit thing was huge and It was funny because the women were self-obsessed but there was always that tiny bit that made you think ‘Shock I do that sometimes’.
Wouldn’t waste the time to re-watch it now. It’s as about as relevant as a re-run of a 1990s sitcom.

auditqueen · 11/03/2018 20:12

Sprinkles - sometimes I wonder if it is ready now!

EachandEveryone · 11/03/2018 20:22

Ffs Samantha was the best actor in it everyone knows that. She got all the best lines and stories. She was always older than them so of course she was going to become menopausal they could hardly ignore it. She liked sex and fellas. And women sometimes. I don’t believe for a minute that she didn’t embrace those storylines. And got paid well for them. The story of breast cancer was fantastically done.im sorry I love Kim but I really can’t believe she hated those story lines. It was a part it was her job. I doubt anyone had a gun to her head.

Sprinklesinmyelbow · 11/03/2018 20:22

Tru fact

PoorYorick · 11/03/2018 20:38

Thanks Elton, that's interesting. I definitely noticed at the time that Sam had more nude scenes than the others (I seem to recall SJP had a no nudity clause in her contract), but I didn't think much of it because that was in keeping with her character.

If the intention was to make her look bad to audiences, I don't think it worked. All the characters needed obstacles that suited them. So the one who just wanted to get married and have kids had divorce and infertility, and the career woman got unexpected pregnancy and a less than ambitious partner. It only makes sense that the man eater with the banging body (and she's still sex on legs, that woman) would have plots around ageing. Besides, if she really was ten years older, it would have been silly to ignore that fact.

Her age never stopped her being very attractive to men and she had no trouble getting a guy in his 20s; indeed, he was the one who wanted to continue the relationship when she ended it.

At any rate, they were all talented actresses but I agree with the guy who said KC really was a scene stealer and natural comedienne. If SJP was trying to make her look stupid, it didn't work...most people I know think Samantha was the real star of the show.

Slightlyperturbedowlagain · 11/03/2018 20:59

Also, to be fair, no one had really heard of any of the actors before SATC so it proved quite a career maker for some of them, regardless of who said or did what to who and why.

PoorYorick · 11/03/2018 21:02

Miranda had a post-baby weight plot, I've just remembered.

Actually, I don't recall Sam ever having a plot that was in any way scatological. Miranda had a relationship where the guy used the toilet in front of her (and Nixon had to do a scene sitting on the bog herself for that), Carrie farted, Charlotte shat herself and had fertility injections in her bum (a body double was used for that brief shot though)....but I don't remember Sam ever having any sort of function-related story.

PoorYorick · 11/03/2018 21:03

Also, to be fair, no one had really heard of any of the actors before SATC

I think KC was already very well known for her roles in 80s rom coms. Mannequin and Big Trouble in Little China are much loved classics.

Slightlyperturbedowlagain · 11/03/2018 21:07

It must have faded then by the 1990s PoorYorik as I hadn’t come across KC’s earlier roles

Ladybirdbookworm · 11/03/2018 21:07

Still love it ....but I pretend I never clapped eyes on SATC 2 ....

squoosh · 11/03/2018 21:08

but I don't remember Sam ever having any sort of function-related story.

Didn't she have a ummm, squirter storyline when she was in the relationship with the artist woman?