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Original poster

Funding for trans people

39 replies

Lifeaback · 08/03/2018 22:23

First of all I want to start by saying I don't condone much of the transphobia that seems to exist on mn. I consider myself to be a very accepting and empathetic person, and have respect and admiration for the trans community.

Ive just finished watching a short BBC 3 documentary called 'becoming a trans man: Leo'. This followed a 16 year old mtf trans man on his journey to medically transition, which involved questions about his future ability to have biological children. He made the decision to have his eggs frozen for the future, and this was funded by the NHS. In the future he hopes to have both top and bottom surgery, which he will also be applying for funding through the NHS.

I completely understand the nature of gender dysphoria and how important all of these medical procedures are for both leo and all other trans people. However, it's really made me question some things regarding the NHS and their budget allocation for treatments. When I was 21, I was diagnosed with Leukemia. Before starting chemotherapy, one of my main worries was how it would affect my future fertility as I had no children and knew that I wanted them in the future. After much research, the general consensus was that nhs funding to freeze my eggs was not going to be very likely. Fortunately, I was able to (with some help from my family and friends) fund to have this done privately. But this isn't an option for many people, and so many young cancer sufferers do not have that choice. After beating cancer, rebuilding your life again is a huge struggle and brings many mental health challenges with it. I can't even imagine how much more I would have struggled if I also had to deal with knowing I would never be able to have biological children, it would have I'm sure been an additional cause of suffering for me.

I remember reading a thread on MN a whilst back about a women who had a breast deformity, known as tuberous/tubular breasts (google for examples of how this looks). It severely affected her mental health, and she became suicidal. She applied for NHS funding to correct this deformity, but was rejected and was unable to fund it privately.

My question I guess is why are so many women being let down/refused the help that would benefit them, when the trans community seem to be granted a huge amount of the NHS' finance. Obviously I am well aware that the NHS is at breaking point and has very limited funds, but surely there should be a blanket ban for all women on things like egg freezing and breast surgery rather than how it is currently?

I have done limited research into statistics of how much funding is allocated, so please do correct me if I'm wrong. I just wanted to hear some other viewpoints on this issue really after watching the film and thought MN might be a good place to ask. Thanks if you've managed to read this far!

OP posts:
McTufty · 08/03/2018 22:27

I agree with you about him having his eggs frozen, if it is the case that this would not be something funded generally by the NHS.

Gender reassignment surgery I think is of really large psychological benefit to many trans people so don’t have a difficulty with it being funded but I agree it is inconsistent with your friend not having her very important surgery funded.

FencingFightingTorture35 · 08/03/2018 22:31

My question I guess is why are so many women being let down/refused the help that would benefit them, when the trans community seem to be granted a huge amount of the NHS' finance

Because we live in a patriarchy and whilst this programme is in fact about a ftm transgender boy, there are a lot of men shouting about how to be trans is to be the most oppressed person ever.

Also this with regards this: I don't condone much of the transphobia that seems to exist on mn. I consider myself to be a very accepting and empathetic person, and have respect and admiration for the trans community

I have only found the feminists arguing on here about this to be full of empathy. It is not transphobic to debate women's rights or rather the alarming erosion of them. Hmm

mirime · 08/03/2018 22:33

I can see your point on the egg freezing, it should be offered to everyone who needs it or nobody, breast surgery is not so clear cut. In the case of trans men it is part of their treatment. And how far do you go? Some women need breast reduction as their breasts cause severe pain, some women have a double mastectomy due to a very high risk of developing cancer. Do we leave women in pain? Do we wait until someone has developed cancer then offer then a mastectomy?

picklemepopcorn · 08/03/2018 22:37

It seems to me less pressing and urgent to support a teenager's transition with high level medical treatment than some other interventions.

I'd support lots of talking therapy, and I'd support various supplementary treatments when the core treatment is essential (so breast repair after mastectomy, egg freezing before chemo).

I don't see the medical transition of teenagers as essential, or even beneficial.

Everything needs to be paid for, and I'd allocate differently.

Pheasantplucker2 · 08/03/2018 22:40

McTufty, I read a very interesting interview with a gender reassignment surgeon. He said that he felt actually in many cases people who had gone through gender reassignment surgery regretted it down the line, and that it should be offered only after years of therapy and discussion. I will see if I can find it, hang on

bellasuewow · 08/03/2018 22:41

Trans rights quite simply trump women’s rights op. Haven’t you heard? What do you think all the fuss is about? It is not about transphobia it is about the erosion of women’s rights in our brave new world .....of 1984. It sounds like you may be in danger of ‘trans peaking ‘ op.

Original poster
Lifeaback · 08/03/2018 22:43

mirime very true, it's hard to know where the line should be drawn, when for I'm sure for most people that apply for funding, being rejected will have devastating psychological consequences.

picklemepopcorn a good point about it being less pressing and urgent. Puberty can be stalled by hormones and the rest figured out later, unfortunately stalling cancer isn't really an option. I also agree that more talking therapy should be funded

OP posts:
FreeNiki · 08/03/2018 22:44

Don't forget the laser hair removal the NHS funds for transgenders

Original poster
Lifeaback · 08/03/2018 22:48

, I read a very interesting interview with a gender reassignment surgeon. He said that he felt actually in many cases people who had gone through gender reassignment surgery regretted it down the line, and that it should be offered only after years of therapy and discussion.

I recall hearing something very similar to this in the news. Regardless of gender or reasoning, I feel as though any major cosmetic surgery really shouldn't be taken lightly and think that the process happens very quickly with gender reassignment. Up until your early 20's most people are still figuring out their identity and their confidence is often still to be found, having major gender reassignment surgery before this point should be held back on IMO.

OP posts:
liminality · 08/03/2018 22:55

I suspect that the instances of surgery and funded medical assistance are broadcast a lot more than other surgeries, cosmetic or medical, so it creates the impression that lots is being spent on them. They are a tiny percentage of the population and receive a very small amount of funding, which is a very recent development - previously there was none or very little, and all surgeries, mental health support and other services were completely self-funded. Hence the massive over-representation in suicide statistics etc. Don't let the disproportionate amount of media attention, fueled by virulent anti-trans communities, let you think these are now a coveted and privileged group. They are not.

McTufty · 08/03/2018 23:04

@pheasantplucker I’d be interested to read that, thanks. Perhaps though whether it is in an individual’s interests to have the surgery is a separate issue from whether surgery for those who it is deemed it would help should be funded.

No easy answers when it comes to nhs funding.

Eltonjohnssyrup · 08/03/2018 23:57

A friend of mine recently had to crowdfund for a cancer drug the NHS wouldn’t fund. She is 35. This crossed my mind then too.

blastomama · 09/03/2018 00:18

funding to keep his eggs....for what exactly? What would be done with them in the future?

JeloZ · 09/03/2018 00:26

Don't forget the laser hair removal the NHS funds for transgenders
And vaniqa face cream (that slows the hair growing back) I have pcos and awful facial hair (and general body hair) its like trying to get blood out of a stone trying to get nhs help about excess hair as an actual woman, I have to pay for laser and vaniqa. Yet they acknowledge women shouldn’t have hair and how depressing it is. (otherwise why fund it for trans)

VladmirsPoutine · 09/03/2018 00:29

Yanbu. Essentially it is impossible to escape sex and biology but yet here we are. Supporting the trans movement is currently the bandwagon to jump on if you want to be seen as 'liberal' and 'progressive'. I am both of those things yet this issue still leaves me bewildered.

Clem7 · 09/03/2018 00:38

I have only found the feminists arguing on here about this to be full of empathy. It is not transphobic to debate women's rights or rather the alarming erosion of them.
There’s a thread from today about the Labour Party which refers to ‘blokes in frocks/dresses’. Maybe the posters were trying to make a specific point about self-identification, but it just sounds like slurs against trans women to me.

Battleax · 09/03/2018 00:41

I don't condone much of the transphobia that seems to exist on mn. I consider myself to be a very accepting and empathetic person

Oh just go away and stop telling lies.

#Yawn

CircleSquareCircleSquare · 09/03/2018 00:47

I believe collection of eggs should have either a blanket ban or be fully open across the board.
I agree with someone above that breasts are a different issue however I largely agree OP.
But I believe the TRA would take legal action as a group if denied their “needs”. I no longer work in a medical setting but I still have friends in the profession who find most of their training, CPDs and issues are now surrounding trans issues. They are threatened with it weekly in the work place by med students, FY doctors and patients.

Don’t forget this is (the TRAs not trans people as a group) who now say uterus transplants will soon be a thing and woman should just shut up (where would this transplanted uterus come from)? Quite now they think a uterus is the only part of the body that allow a woman to grow and birth a baby is beyond me.

MakeUpMyRoom · 09/03/2018 00:57

Because we live in a patriarchy and whilst this programme is in fact about a ftm transgender boy, there are a lot of men shouting about how to be trans is to be the most oppressed person ever.

How did you shoe-horn that in?

This is about a woman.

You have quite the chip on your shoulder, don't you?

Italiangreyhound · 09/03/2018 02:28

@Lifeaback I am so sorry to hear about your caner and hope the treatment has all worked well and that you will go on to use your eggs and have a baby. Thanks

CapnHaddock · 09/03/2018 02:50

Because trans rights are more important than women's rights. Because they have lobbied hard to have their needs prioritised and funded. Because Mermaids is setting the agenda.

Women can't get hysterectomies or fertility treatment despite crippling medical need.

And the suicide stat is a myth

picklemepopcorn · 09/03/2018 07:50

To me, trans people already have a viable, sustainable body they live in.

People with cancer, the PP with PCOS syndrome, other physical problems, they need the various treatments more.

If the NHS was like a magic porridge pot, well maybe. As it is, then no.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 09/03/2018 07:54

It seems to me less pressing and urgent to support a teenager's transition with high level medical treatment than some other interventions

You are forgetting that without treatment they will kill themselves [citation needed]

Oliversmumsarmy · 09/03/2018 08:06

A friend of mine recently had to crowdfund for a cancer drug the NHS wouldn’t fund. She is 35. This crossed my mind then too

We spent £80000 of our own money on dp to get Hipec treatment to extend his life after the NHS refused to pay. We think he would have been dead by now if we hadn't spent the money.

The NHS is very skewed in what it spends money on

jellyfrizz · 09/03/2018 09:00

They are a tiny percentage of the population and receive a very small amount of funding, which is a very recent development - previously there was none or very little, and all surgeries, mental health support and other services were completely self-funded.

I don't know what you consider recent but gender reassignment surgery has been available on the NHS since the 60s.