AIBU to feel so sad and angry and think this is not normal behaviour

[Shocked123]

Back story - my DB is divorced. Him and ex-SIL co-parent their young children amicably, and, to a certain extent, seem to make it work. Ex-SIL has a history of being controlling and, I feel emotionally abusive, towards my gentle easily manipulated brother. It seems to have got worse over the years. She often makes unreasonable demands around childcare, but for the sake of my gorgeous nephew and niece whom we all adore, my extended family and I have never got involved and always maintained a friendly relationship with her.

It's become really obvious over the years that SIL is doing less and less actual childcare. When the kids are not with my DB, they are either with specific relatives or in various after-school clubs. On a regular week, my DB says she has the kids for two mornings before school and two evenings from 5ish 'til bedtimes. Never ever consecutively. She has said she 'has had enough of them' after one evening. The eldest is starting to ask questions as to why Mum never looks after them.

Today is the eldest's birthday. The plan was to have a family meal get together at her house, as it's the kids primary residence. SIL works very flexible work hours so they arranged she would collect the kids from school then DB would go over after work for a little party. She called DB midday to say she is unwell (sinusitis) so now can't collect the kids from school (which is walking distance from her house, and so DB needs to leave work immediately to come over to hers, to 'tidy the house and buy stuff for the party tea, then collect the children from school. He works a train ride away and cannot just walk out of work. For once he refused to do her bidding, so now the party is off, also she feels too worn out look after them tonight. She regularly pulls these stunts but as my brother kept repeating to me on the phone. 'It's her child's birthday... ' She has form for getting really really angry if my bro doesn't do what she says, and she threatens to end his contact with his children.

I feel so desperately sad for my nephew and his little sister. He is expecting a family party but now that won't happen as none of the family will travel over to my brother's house. Just for the record, my niece and nephew are darlings. Well-behaved and no real trouble at all.

So after all that, my question is AIBU to think this isn't normal maternal behaviour is it?

IME hobbies go out the window with depression but everyone is different.

Why hasn't your brother applied for full custody? Probably an idea.

It is sad for the children if they're starting to feel that their mother doesn't want to spend time with them.

However, I'm not impressed about your DB because it was more important not to "do her bidding" than to ensure his child had the birthday celebrating he was expecting.

My child's father doesn't do his share. I suck it up. I don't put my self-assertion over my child's wellbeing. I moan about it on here and to friends sometimes, although not in front of dd.

I think there's a strong gender dimension to this. If a man was doing the amount your SIL is doing, he'd be considered a good dad (I'm not saying I agree, but he would). Your SIL has clearly been labelled a Bad Mother by your side of the family. I'm afraid your DB has got to keep sucking it up and forget about his manly self-assertion while his dcs need him.

I echo what others have said RE hobbies go out the window. With me I know when depression is creeping in and when its finally abating because of my hobbies. My creative streak dies when I am depressed. First go the hobbies, the tidy house, the home cooked meals etc. You know if I'm not right because we eat more ready meals/freezer meals than home cooked.

I do think she has issues around the children. She might not be a maternal type (I'm not) and can then find the constant parenting exhausting (I do) but she needs to be honest about that. Be up front. Even if it means her and DB sit down and they negotiate the childcare tasks she can fully invest herself in and those she cant and your DB needs to be able to say the same.

For me its the morning school run I despise (I'm an introvert and find mornings being bombarded with a ton of questions and constant waffling so very exhausting and the constant alertness required to keep DC safe stressful) so rather than get stressed out over it and impact my own health I have made arrangements for DC to go to school without me. I still do evening pick up when I'm usually more awake, have had sufficient time to be 'prepared' for the walk home. I am a single mum though so negotiating this set up for me is lifesaving meaning I can do the things that wouldn't be done otherwise because I'd need to rest after the school run question bombardment!

If this isnt the case though then your DB needs to reassess whether your SIL is the right primary carer or not. It might be the case SIL would be happier and the DCs happier if she wasn't the primary carer then SIL could focus on them properly in a shorter period of time.

I get the frustration. I get the mental health side and i do get that some people either aren't honest about how much their mental health affects them through pride/shame - your SILs hobbies could be whats keeping her upright, don't forget that - OR she could be using it as a way to do less. You just cant tell.

Honestly I have to agree that he did need to stop bowing to her every demand, but his son's birthday probably didn't need to be that day. If he couldn't walk out of work though i couldn't be helped.

Your brother really needs to go to court and seek full custody of his children. Talk to him about that as a matter of priority. If she really is that bad, it's negligent of him to leave her as the primary care giver.

Your brother is picking today, his child's birthday, to be the day he stands up to his ex wife? He couldn't have waited til tomorrow?

It was yesterday Asdwife.

She sees her children on average about eight to ten hours in an entire week.
If that is the case then is NOT the RP and your DB is, regardless of what is written in the once of paper.
For me, that means he needs to stop thinking she will step up and do xxx but act as if she was the NRP, and one that isn’t very helpful.
He should be the one to organise the party, esp with his family. At least, he will know his dcs won’t be disappointed because their mum has let them down again.
As for explaining why to the dcs, being factual is the best. SHe has sinusitis and doesn’t feel well. The dcs will learn for themselves who is and isn’t caring about them.
He can’t do anything about the relationship with their mum (or the lack of)..

Fwiw I’m amazed at some answers on this thread. A father who would have cancelled a b’day party because of sinusitis and would have expected their ex to jump to solve the issue, leave work etc... would have been labelled as a twat.
But this time it seems it’s all because she has MH issues etc...
Hmm.....

asdwife or maybe he didn’t have the choice because he just couldn’t just leave work, just like this??? Because it wasn’t just about going to pick the dcs up. She was also asking him to come over, clean HER houses do all the preparations for the b’day etc... (and I assume also paying for it).
I pretty sure that if it had been just about picking the dcs up, it wouldn’t have been an issue. (Which he did btw. And then took them back to his house. If he had taken them to her house, I assume there still wouldnt have been any party -as she couldn’t do the shopping-)

And yes to the pp who mentioned the gender dimension. This mother is doing more hours than many fathers do. My own exh does less than her and I pick up the pieces all the time. You cannot force a parent to parent, unfortunately.

Maybe she really is that unattached to her children. It is extraordinary how often fathers just disappear once they’re divorce, or earlier, but it’s less usual to see a mother disappear, and I’m not sure if thats because they simply have stronger instincts, or whether they know they could never cope with the furore when they leave / abandon the children.

It is possible that she does the bare minimum because she simply cannot deal with it/them, but I would wonder whether that is actually to their benefit. Better absent than in the same room and ignoring them, perhaps.

I think she IS held to a higher standard that divorced fathers, but it is worth considering what the reason is. It IS very unusual, and maybe is a clear sign that she has issues. Of course, as long as the children are well and fed etc., and while the ex DH is around to be the RP, it will have less impact on these particular children than if they also had a similar disinterested dad.

bibliomania and others asking why my DB chose his son's birthday to stand up to her. Please read the thread. He didn't CHOOSE that day, he simply was unable to leave work at a moment's notice to travel across the city to plan a birthday party and collect the kids. Largely because of the snow last week,he was snowed under at work and his boss wouldn't have let him just walk out of the office to buy balloons and pizza for a kid's party that he understood was ALREADY in hand. He had already offered the day before to sort some stuff and she said she had it sorted. I realise that is extra info - apologies.

shocked don’t worry that bit was perfectly clear.....

Seriously how many of you in full-time work can take the afternoon off at a moment's notice??

Thank you all for the responses. She came across as quite selfish and controlling in some ways before she had children, so I think it is more about her as an individual. I'm not ruling out MH health issues at all actually. I think some of you might be right. The hobbies, social life etc. may well be her way of keeping well.

Before they children, she would often go out of an evening but get very angry if my brother wanted to, and it clashed with her timetable. She is very inflexible and I have been subject to unreasonable demands from her before.

It's very difficult to tell if her mh problems are manifesting as being unable to cope with her children, or if they are an inability to cope with anything that makes demands on her, if that makes sense?

Or she is just quite selfish and used to getting her own way. He has stood up to her in the past btw. He felt that it was unreasonable for her to make these demands on him so said no. He did not expect her to just cancel the party!

Bibliomania

I think there's a strong gender dimension to this. If a man was doing the amount your SIL is doing, he'd be considered a good dad (I'm not saying I agree, but he would). Your SIL has clearly been labelled a Bad Mother by your side of the family. I'm afraid your DB has got to keep sucking it up and forget about his manly self-assertion while his dcs need him

She does 8-10 hours a week childcare and works part-time. DB works full-time and has the children for more than 8-10 hours alone on a weekend? Like the others have said, he basically is the resident parent.
No-one has labelled her a Bad Mother.
No, DB doesn't have to walk out of his job and risk losing it, because she phones and tells him he needs to get balloons... that's not manly self-assertion - that's healthy boundaries.

Iborgia

Thank you. I agree. I think it is unusual behaviour to be that detached. Essentially I was canvassing opinions to see if others think she is justified or if I am overreacting. It is very difficult when you come from a background with narcissistic parents like me and DB, and are conditioned in some ways to minimise emotionally abusive behaviour to actually recognise it in others. My DB often calls me to check what is normal and ask what I think, and I find it hard to answer.

Yes he did collect the children in the end and he took them out for dinner.

Really it's not normal to sacrifice your child's birthday treat to punish your ex for not doing as he is told.

I'm glad he collected them in the end.

Okay, I accept he couldn't logistically get away from the office to do the birthday.

I stand by the point that your DB is not uniquely hard done by. He's doing a good proportion of the parenting, so fair dues to him for that. But he's still doing a lower percentage of it than many, many single mothers, and they don't have their female relatives getting wound up about the horrible unfairness of it all. If you have dcs with someone who turns out not a be a good parent (I'm talking about myself), you just have to do more.

It's very difficult to tell if her mh problems are manifesting as being unable to cope with her children, or if they are an inability to cope with anything that makes demands on her, if that makes sense?
Or she is just quite selfish and used to getting her own way.

OP even with the very dim view you've painted of your SIL no strangers on the internet can answer your questions.

It could be either. But given that she has significant MH issues, in your shoes I'd be leaning with the notion that it might possibly be this that is causing her behaviour.

But who knows? Not me that's for sure.

Your message to your DB has to be to suck it up for the dc's sake. It's not about what's "normal", it's about what's needed.

bibliomania

He does what is needed. He doesn't have a problem with looking after his children. I think you misunderstand. He wants to know what is "normal" because he has concerns about her parenting ability.

GreatDuck Thank you. I think I am leaning towards MH problems rather than being a "Bad Parent".

Does it make a difference whether she's mad or bad? If the dcs are being harmed by the arrangement, he should seek to have it changed. If not, he just needs to get on with it.

peartree

Yes you've pretty much summed it up

Yes. It was a very good post.