AIBU to feel so sad and angry and think this is not normal behaviour

[Shocked123]

Back story - my DB is divorced. Him and ex-SIL co-parent their young children amicably, and, to a certain extent, seem to make it work. Ex-SIL has a history of being controlling and, I feel emotionally abusive, towards my gentle easily manipulated brother. It seems to have got worse over the years. She often makes unreasonable demands around childcare, but for the sake of my gorgeous nephew and niece whom we all adore, my extended family and I have never got involved and always maintained a friendly relationship with her.

It's become really obvious over the years that SIL is doing less and less actual childcare. When the kids are not with my DB, they are either with specific relatives or in various after-school clubs. On a regular week, my DB says she has the kids for two mornings before school and two evenings from 5ish 'til bedtimes. Never ever consecutively. She has said she 'has had enough of them' after one evening. The eldest is starting to ask questions as to why Mum never looks after them.

Today is the eldest's birthday. The plan was to have a family meal get together at her house, as it's the kids primary residence. SIL works very flexible work hours so they arranged she would collect the kids from school then DB would go over after work for a little party. She called DB midday to say she is unwell (sinusitis) so now can't collect the kids from school (which is walking distance from her house, and so DB needs to leave work immediately to come over to hers, to 'tidy the house and buy stuff for the party tea, then collect the children from school. He works a train ride away and cannot just walk out of work. For once he refused to do her bidding, so now the party is off, also she feels too worn out look after them tonight. She regularly pulls these stunts but as my brother kept repeating to me on the phone. 'It's her child's birthday... ' She has form for getting really really angry if my bro doesn't do what she says, and she threatens to end his contact with his children.

I feel so desperately sad for my nephew and his little sister. He is expecting a family party but now that won't happen as none of the family will travel over to my brother's house. Just for the record, my niece and nephew are darlings. Well-behaved and no real trouble at all.

So after all that, my question is AIBU to think this isn't normal maternal behaviour is it?

This is an anonymous Internet forum OP. Say what you truly feel and think. You’ll get a battering for it for randoms on the Internet, but hey. There may be one or two useful replies.

Sounds to me that you are angry and frustrated and know you’d be overstepping the mark to intervene. I can’t tell whether this is because you love your niece and nephew so much, your brother so much, or dislike your SIL so much. Maybe a bit of all the above.

Accepting all the above, hypothetically: then what? There really isn’t anything you can do. She’s not your SIL anymore. The children seem to be well cared for. Support your brother as best you can. Care for your niece and nephew as best you can. The rest, you just have to suck it up. Life isn’t fair or right or just - that’s all.

Peartree

Yes you've pretty much summed it up.

Although reading other people's responses, I'm beginning to wonder if she has mh issues specifically surrounding care of her kids, and I hadn't really considered that it could be that specific, and I'm worried that these issues may be getting worse and how that will impact on the children and my DB. I love them so I worry.

Thank you for everyone who took the time to offer advice.

experiential data

😂

It’s probably a conversation your brother needs to have with his ex. Regardless of MH issues or not if one child is starting to realise and get upset the emotion has to be taken out of it so what’s best for the child can be looked at.

Amanduh

No she has the children two mornings before school and two evenings after 5. Sometimes later. She doesn’t have them two whole days on her own. DB has them most weekends from Sat through to Mon morning and a few evenings a week and the following morns to get them to School. So for example she has them say Mon eve then Tues morning then Thurs eve and Friday morn. The flexible to fit in with work commitments etc

GeorgeTheHippo To be fair, depression is different for everyone and I can only go on my personal experiences.

Amanduh

sorry posted too soon.
Absolutely he picks up the pieces. Because he is their Dad and that's what he does. It's just this time he is having to find reasons on how to explain to his son why mum has cancelled the party and doesn't want to see him on his birthday, and he's upset about having to do this.

And fyi he did do most of the childcare and domestic work when they were together.

Your brother should just try to get custody and she can have them eow.

Pengggwn yes. I do have data you don't have. I have known the woman for over a decade. Any chance of any constructive advice from you what with you being such an expert on her mental health issues, or are going to keep firing shitty little comments at me?

I do understand the frustration of trying to maintain a relationship with a sibling's DC when the sibling (or in this case, their ex) is not helpful and you live far away.

However, I am wondering if you have ever tried to do a full-time professional job with a commute and look after children. I probably spend the same amount of time with my DD during the week, most weeks. To be honest, the amount of time your niece/nephew spend with parents in total, from what you've said, doesn't sound unusual at all.

Also, I had sinusitis earlier this year - never had it before and I was astonished how unpleasant it was.

So, does this really boil down to your frustration that your ex-SIL doesn't really facilitate your relationship with her DC? That's understandable when she's an ex, I think.

Next time plan the party for one of your DB's weekends and don't involve her in it?

She doesn't actually commute. She mainly works from home part-time. She sees her children on average about eight to ten hours in an entire week. I think this is what frustrates my DB so much. She already spends so little time with them, and the birthday was one of her evenings.

I think this is unusual, but it's not my place to say anything. I feel for my DB and my nephew.

I do understand mental health issues can affect people in different ways. If people think this behaviour signals a decline in her mental state, then it would be great to know, rather than being told I don't understand mental health and I just 'hate' my SIL. I don't hate her. She is more than welcome in my home and I maintain a civil polite relationship with her. If she ever wanted help or advice I would be happy to give to her. I will do anything for her children and I always will. I have known her for a long time and I have had to navigate tricky relations, unpleasant behaviour and unreasonable demands for many years. I can give examples if people really want.

I do not think that having mental health issues automatically absolves people of responsibility or, dependent on the MH problem, excuses certain behaviours. I want to know if her behaviour is ABNORMAL. Because if it is, it signifies a bigger problem than her just being idle or having sinus problems. I want to know how to support my DB and his children if she is becoming unable to look after her children for the bare minimum she has already arranged.

Thanks all.

As others have said OP, could your DB go for residency?

Shocked123

My advice is as I have said: I don't think people on the internet can tell you about your SIL's MH.

I know a very similar situation op and completely understand where you are coming from. Unfortunately the children are quite affected now. Her family pick up the pieces and no-one questions a thing. It's very sad. I think she might well want your db to get custody but doesn't want to say it!

Do you think she's feeling hard done by and is trying to make a point to your brother about doing more to help with the party? It seems she was meant to arrange everything and she's trying to force him to up his game? Whatever, its a shitty thing to do to her own kids.

its a crying shame that the point at which he puts his foot down and says no is his childs birthday.

Is there any chance of another relative doing the school pick-up and preparations?

Well she’s either so ill that she’s had to cancel her son’s birthday party, in which case she needs a lot of help and compassion.
Or she’s done what she usually does and left her ex to sort stuff out, when he couldn’t leave work, she’s thrown her toys out of the pram and CANCELLED her sons party.

From what you’ve said OP, I think it’s the second scenario and I feel so sorry for that child.

You want to know if her behaviour is abnormal OP? It's impossible to say as someone that doesn't know her or anything about her history or her current MH problems. We've only got your side on the story here which is obviously not painting her in a great light because you're understandably feeling bad for your DB and his children.

I think the only thing right now you can do is support your brother and his dc as much as you can and maybe try and talk to SIL as gently as possible to see if you can try and find out how she's coping. By gently I don't mean tackle her about the birthday etc I mean just as a friend.

maybe but people with mental health issues can appear very self centred. My mum was and is. It’s s miserable childhood to be honest
My mum was too and i totally agree with you

Not at all. Would you brother consider trying to get custody himself?

I also would like to point out that mental health isn’t an excuse to treat your children like dirt. It’s an explanation but it’s not an excuse. That kind of thing isn’t acceptable no matter how understandable it is. As someone with a parent with fairly severe depression throughout the my childhood I can safely say that using your own problems to justify abusing your children is a really shit thing to do. If she can’t handle her mental health and her children then she should do the decebtthing and piss off. OP shouldn’t be told off for failing to engage with minimisers.

Out we've had a tiny snapshot of this woman's behaviour from someone that is understandably angry. None of us know why SIL is acting the way she is. To me it sounds like she's not coping with the enormity of looking after two young children whilst battling with MH issues rather than treating her children like dirt.

She spends 8/10 hours a week with her children works part time and posters are saying how hard she has it, come on!!

She's able to work and apparently do very well at this, she has numerous hobbies too but sorting out her child's party is too much for her. That's not MH that's prioritising her own needs over her children. If it were a father behaving like this he'd be called abusive on here and rightly so.

Your brother needs to organise something for his son over the weekend and then seek advice about having more custody.

You and he also need to look at the positives in this. While your sil is letting the kids down their father and extended family aren't. They're surrounded by people who love them. While your sil is neglecting them emotionally she's not neglecting to make sure they're cared for or letting any old person mind them.