Cousin asking permission for image use

[lexxibeth]

Hubby and I finally had our wedding day last October. We had limited budget but for ease of life after marriage (my mother) we extend the invite to first cousins. Ie, I do not have any kind of relationship with this particular cousin I am posting about.

As per, once the day was done social media was inundated with lots of pics from those who had camera phones and had shared the day with us.

Last night my cousin messaged to ask permission to use a photo she had taken on the day as a portfolio cover picture for a photography business page she is launching.

Now, I have a couple of issues but can't tell if I'm being a hormonal grump (32wk 5d today) but hubby also feels her request is pretty cheeky. Here's why;

Ignorant and cold to both of us on the day, kept to one side despite efforts to approach her.

Did not have a camera with her on the day, only her phone - which I find bizarre that someone wanting to advertise a professional photography service would use camera phone photos.

She has not shared a single photo of our day so in all honesty I wasn't aware she had even taken any!

I also saw that she had already gone ahead and used the photo 3 hours before she messaged me and the quality is not great.

Lastly, I feel like the implication is that she took the photo at our wedding as a designated photographer. To me that's unfair to our actual photographer and also a bit of a liberty/false advertisement.

As I've said, hubby is of the same mind as me but there's this little chime on my ear telling me it's no skin off my nose and I should be more supportive of someone trying to launch a creative career!

Thoughts?

Am I the only one wondering why the OP invited this cousin who she has no relationship with to her wedding?' Why even invite her?

as the OP said, to be nice to family, that's what many people do. What's so surprising about that? it's not like the OP invited some random from the supermarket.

Well I certainly would not be inviting anyone to MY wedding who I have no relationship with. I couldn't give a shit if it's a cousin.

Must be 'nice to family' though eh?

"Even though it's her copyright because she took it, you own the rights to your image and have a say in how pictures of you are used."

Why is this?
You can be photographed in a public space all the time. Is it because it's a close-up or because it was in a private place?

The OP has said the the cousin was nothing but hostile and cold and ignorant and distant all the way through the wedding too!

I would tell the cousin to fuck off if I were the OP.

"Must be 'nice to family' though eh? hmm"

Is that a new idea for you?
You never know when you might need your family.
OP explained it was to keep her mum happy.

No way would I want my wedding pictures out in the public domain.

She sounds like an entitled taker. Tell her she does not have your permission.

I don't think she needs your permission. Copyright rests with the creator not the subject.

There have been some legal cases regarding restriction on using images. I.e. revenge porn can be an offence under the Communucations Act 2003. Photographs taken/disseminated persistently/agressively may fall within the definition of harassment (although here it would be the act of photography rather than the image itself which is the issue). There is a right to privacy in the Human Rights Act 1998 - article 8. Photographs taken in public places will not usually fall within this as it had to be balanced with Article 10 - freedom of expression. (Photographs of children are problematic as there are various additional reasons and separate legislation which may require a specific child's image not be published, and in general Article 8 cases are more likely to find that a child's right to a private life, even in public, outweigh the right to freedom of expression.)

For adults, you are more likely to be fair game, at least in public. Celebrities have sometimes been successful in "passing off" cases were use of their image had (wrongly) suggested endorsement of a brand thereby damaging the goodwill/value of their image. Ordinary people would have no such case.

Because of the potential complications, photographers will often require the signing of a release form to ensure they can use the image in certain ways or how they see fit (depending on the release wording). This does not mean the subject "owns his own image".

Article 8 should cover photos taken in a private place (although not typically photos taken of a private place from public land). A wedding ceremony in the UK is legally public. A wedding reception is arguably private particularly if the couple have made requests in advance to prohibit/ restrict photography by guests and publishing of images thereby creating an expectation of privacy.

Unfortunately if other guests have published their pics on social media without objection from you or your husband you are unlikely to have any rights.

Your cousin has done the polite catch-all approach. You can say no but if she goes ahead anyway the position is not clear cut about who has the greater rights and on balance i would say she does.

Well I certainly would not be inviting anyone to MY wedding who I have no relationship with. I couldn't give a shit if it's a cousin.
Must be 'nice to family' though eh?

you sound delightful. In RL, it's not unheard of to invite a few people to make your parents happy. I did. I paid for my own wedding, invited friends, family and relative closer to my parents than they were to me. Everybody was happy and I had a fantastic day, my family had a lovely day catching up with everybody.

Oh the horror, a drama-free friendly wedding, where people come to celebrate, enjoy a nice meal and a few drinks having fun with relative they don't have a chance to see that often.

"Must be 'nice to family' though eh? "

@Gwenhwyfa

Is that a new idea for you?

You never know when you might need your family. OP explained it was to keep her mum happy.

So the OP has to be nice to her cousin?

Even though she has NO relationship with her, and she was cold and distant and ignorant all the way through her wedding?

And thanks for your sarcastic and snide 'question,' but NO, being nice to family is not a new concept to me, the family who CARE about me and who are in my life all the time, and there when I need them.

HOWEVER, an extended family member who I have NO relationship with and who ignored me all the way through my wedding can fuck right off.

Then again, as I said, I would not have invited this cousin anyway (if I had been the OP!)

She invited her 'just to make her mother happy?'

No-one would be telling me who I invite to my wedding. And my mother would not be expecting me to invite someone I have no relationship with either. How bizarre.

Sounds like a bit of a toxic situation to me.

And as I said, I would tell said cousin to fuck right off.

Oh the horror, a drama-free friendly wedding, where people come to celebrate, enjoy a nice meal and a few drinks having fun with relative they don't have a chance to see that often.

Stop talking tosh.

The cousin of the OP is someone she has no relationship with and who ignored her throughout the entire wedding, and was cold and distant.

Read the full thread before you post in future.

Maybe people should RTFT a bit more thoroughly..... only on MN do you get so many people completely ignoring expert advice, eg that from
WhatWouldOliviaPopeDo who says:

"OP, please don't listen to anyone who says she doesn't need permission because she owns the copyright. YOU own your personal image, your likeness, so only YOU can decide if it's used in an advert. I worked in the entertainment industry for years and a release form is a must. People can sue over their image being used without permission."

OP, your reasons don't stack up, they do sound like a hormonal grump (IMHO). However, that is irrelevant. If you don't want your cousin to use your image to promote her business just say No!

No-one would be telling me who I invite to my wedding.
you sound like a petulant 12 year old

Back to the real world, people do happen to have a great relationship with their parents, who don't order them to do anything, but you know your mum will be happy to see her brothers/sisters and their own children at a family wedding, so you invite them.

Big deal, not everything is toxic, not everything is a drama. Adults don't need to tell everyone to fuck right off. .

Yes, the cousin was rude as I wrote before, but the OP could hardly guess that before inviting her, could she.

I don’t think you know what ignorant means, OP. It’s a lack of knowledge, so unless you’re insinuating she had a lack of knowledge on the day (about what? Who knows!), you’re using it wrong.

As for using the image, your reason for refusing would be out of spite, so you should say yes.

ohnomoresnow
read my full posts and the posts they were replying to before commenting, that will help.

ohnomoresnow don't you think it's a bit late (not to mention pointless) arguing whether it was OK to invite the cousin now?

OP I'd just let her use it and move along

Given that she doesn't need your permission I think it was polite that she asked you first. I can't see why you would refuse when it doesn't really affect you in any way? If you really hate the idea you can tell her you would prefer she didn't but you can't stop her if she goes ahead anyway.

I think I'd be quite flattered; I'd say yes, ask for a copy of the pic and others that she took, and suggest she does a free family photo shoot for you when baby arrives, which again could be advertised to imply it's paid for. For the sake of family relations I'd work on keeping harmony and try to build a relationship.

Not sure OliviaPope has it right. She can't use a photo with OP's likeness for commercial purposes (e.g. She can't sell a print of it or sell it as a stock photo) without permission but she can use it as art or as an example of her work on an online portfolio.

As to the 'cold and distant' thing - some people are really, really shy and this comes across as being aloof. Maybe she just didn't know how to approach you, as you were the bride and probably surrounded by people who did know you well. Of course she could be a complete cow but give her the benefit of the doubt!!!

Tricky. It's cheeky of her to use the image and it sounds like she only asked for permission to cover her back after the event.

You say that the images aren't great quality so therefore they're not going to be the best advertisement for her business, are they? Sounds like she's already shot herself in the foot, doesn't it?

I am a photographer. I do not understand why so many people are saying she doesn't need permission. She does. You need permission to use images to support a business because it is commercial use of images. Of course it is up to you if you would like to give her permission or not, I agree that it sends the wrong message, whoever sees her website will assume she was the official photographer and she wasn't.

"she absolutely DOES need permission to use the image for a commercial/advertising project. Even though it's her copyright because she took it, you own the rights to your image and have a say in how pictures of you are used."
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This^^
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Personally I would say no...also when we had our photos done...there was a clause in our official photographers contract about someone else using images for their own wedding photography business purposes! Basically they couldn't as he had been hired to and not another company as our photographer ...we owned all the images outright but another 'wedding photography' business could not claim it as their wedding...not a problem for the images of cake, bridesmaids etc when we sent them to those companies as a thank you but if they wanted to put them on their website it had to say image courtesy of... the co. that made our cake took their own image too but they ended up using the official one and just put the image courtesy of...plus helped build relationships with each other (all local small businesses) as the photographer was amazing and showed off everything in the best light...Just be aware there may be a clause in your contract.

Fugitivefrombrusstice She wants to use the image in an advert for a commercial, profit-making venture - as the cover photo for her business website page - so she needs the bride to sign a release form giving permission to appear in it.

I'm not sure why she's actually asked you since she doesn't need your permission.

Wrong :) permission is needed for any commercially used photo.
regarding photo journalists / use of photos - there is a difference between a photo being used as news or being used to advertise the business - if the photo journalist wanted to use a papped shot to promote their business - which suggested endorsement by the person in the photo, then they need permission...

write to her with the line: "we don't feel that it is right to promote a business with a photo suggesting that you were our wedding photographer, so please don't use our photo for your business"

if she wants to get into the wedding business then she can easily get experience with other photographers to build up a portfolio - when I was shooting weddings I used an assistant who had exactly that in mind and then went on to launch her own wedding business - using photos from the weddings she had shot with me...

Not sure OliviaPope has it right. She can't use a photo with OP's likeness for commercial purposes (e.g. She can't sell a print of it or sell it as a stock photo) without permission but she can use it as art or as an example of her work on an online portfolio.

Nope :) anything where it suggests that the individual endorses a business must have permission... The only time you can use a photo commercially without permission is based on the concept of news which is why on stock libraries you will see some photos only have a news release, others a full release... Equally if the photo is of many people / the individual is ancillary to the photo then no release is needed - i.e. the test is could an individual be considered to be endorsing the business - if yes, then a release is needed...

Any commercial photographer knows the law and has no issue observing it - amateurs pretending to run a photography business might not ;)