What is the difference? (Warning - another transgender thread)

[Flippetydip]

I am prepared to get totally flamed for this but it is a genuine, and not meant to be goady question. I know there is a huge amount of transgender posts on here at the moment (hence the title so people have the choice not to read) but my question is:

If I can self ID as a man (or woman if I'm a man) can I self ID as a person of another race? I seem to recall a huge hoo-ha back along over some woman in the States who identified as black but was originally white and was absolutely pilloried. Genuinely, what is the difference?

I think a large part of the problem with modern Transactivism is that the feeling that Jayceedove has tried to articulate here has been reduced to a few simple tropes.

It's no wonder that most people when faced with such nonsense as "born in the wrong body" , "feel like a woman/man", and the particularly risible "men/lady brains" respond with incredulity. On the face of it - when put like this - it's ludicrous. And it's unsurprising that the ones saying these things hit a brick wall of disbelief.

It clearly CAN'T be explained so simply, as evidenced by the difficulty of someone who has lived it in trying to clarify it and having to admit that she can't.

As far as "'living as a woman" is concerned, I may be misunderstanding it, but I read it as she lived for a certain time as a stereotype (as prescribed by her doctors) for the express purpose of proving that she "deserved" the right to transition. And thereafter, lived as herself - whatever that meant to her.

Transitioning was evidently the only way she COULD live as herself (something most of us do our whole lives and take for granted) as it depended on rejecting her male body and presenting and being accepted as a female.

Quite prepared to be told I'm mistaken, however.

Certcert it was me who made that point way back on the thread. In a way, I wish I hadn't reading It back, because I think it can be problematic making comparisons between sex and race. It is often tempting to do so, as there can be similarities, but I am aware that making such analogies can quickly lead onto dodgy ground.

I agree with you. i am white and will never know how It feels to go through life as a black woman, although I am aware that i go through life with a privilege. I notice instances of racism, but I know that there must be even more that I dont notice.

I find it impossible to accept that anyone who claims to feel like a woman must be accepted as a woman in every way. I cannot tell anyone how they feel on the inside, (and wouldn't want to) but I do not think that those feelings give them an automatic right to spaces and rights reserved for biological women. I do not think those feelings should automatically make them a women in the eyes of the law, or for statistical reasons etc.

I say "automatic" because I do support people like Jayceedove being granted legal recognition, as they are now. There should be "gate keeping" in place beyond "I say I am so I am". Attempts to remove this concern me. I still suffer from a bit of cognitive dissonance on the issue. But I cannot agree with what the most vocal trans activists are calling for, and the lack of debate in much of the media and politics appalls me.

I think most people are pretty accepting of a man or woman who adopts the cultural traits of the other sex. I think most people would see a man pretending to be a woman to get access to a job or education as pretty unacceptable.

Tell that to the Labour Party

Squishysquirmy, I agree

Jayceedove

Thank you for coming on here and explaining. Puts me in mind of the quote in Hamlet: "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." And I can't disagree with that.

For me by far the worst thing about any trans discussion is the way that women are terrorised and silenced just for asking questions or trying to protect themselves and their sons and daughters. But as you have proved the TRAs responsible for all the aggression do not represent every trans woman and there is a far more nuanced conversation to be had.