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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Voilent 6 year old

55 replies

libertysilk · 06/03/2018 16:13

I've not seen friend for months due to her son. When I was 5 months pregnant he said 'I'm going to punch the baby and kill it'. Her response was oh your not going to do that, said in a soft way.
He loses his temper so easily and hits his sister or my other daughter, who is the same age as his sister.
I saw one of her friends today and said what had happened. She says she can't not say anything, but needs a day to think about it.
What do I do? I'm sure I'll get an angry response from my friend. But, I stand by not seeing her again.

OP posts:
Shedmicehugh · 07/03/2018 07:31

for the record intelligence has nothing to do with SEN or disabilities.

There is clearly something going on for this child.

NiceHotBath · 07/03/2018 07:31

OP

This is horribly upsetting for mums who’s children (for whatever reason, including SEN) behave like this. They will reply saying how awful you are. Personally, I would have said ‘play dates don’t work for me right now’ and only expanded on that if she asked why - along the lines of ‘my dd is scared of your ds at the moment’. But you have every right to protect your kids, and I wouldn’t deliberately put my kids in a situation which scared them and in which one of the adults involved wasn’t up for discussion it and working out how to make it better.

Stormwhale · 07/03/2018 07:32

I don't think it is a particularly nasty message, but I also don't feel you have acted very well in this situation. The time to speak to your friend about it was at the time, not just ghost her for months and then bitch to a friend of hers. It just doesn't come across well at all.

I think you are right to stop your children being at risk from the boy, but I think I would have explained what was worrying you and asked to just meet up without children.

Shedmicehugh · 07/03/2018 07:35

How about supervising play more carefully? More adult led play as they are so young?

DeloresJaneUmbridge · 07/03/2018 07:50

As others have said, SEN has nothing to do with intelligence. There's a kid in my son's class at Special school about to sit higher GCSE Maths a year early .....very very bright but totally unmanageable in a mainstream school.

This kid has some issues, they could be developmental (so he will outgrow them), they could be as the result of a neurodevelopment issue such as ADHD, ASD etc where he is saying stuff impulsively which he doesn't really understand. My son at 6 used to say all kinds of similar stuff....he had a very cartoon brain so if someone was killed they would get up again. At 15 he never says anything like it.

For the record I was in despair much of the time when my son was 6, I was waiting for appointments, I knew he wasn't right but didn't know why and I was stressed and anxious about it all. I didn't share all this with friends because....well it wasn't their problem. I would have been devastated to receive a text like the one you've sent your friend. To be honest I would say she is well shot of you but I so hope she has some support around her when she receives it.

There may be all kinds of investigations going on that you are unaware of.

You are right to want to protect your baby but that could have been done by seeing her without the kids.

Happygolucky009 · 07/03/2018 07:51

It was nasty because at no point did you need to volunteer information about your thoughts on her child and finishing off the message with "you are a lovely woman" is deeply patronising. Her 6 yr old made a comment that caused upset, you don't like the way he behaves and therefore as a friend you could have suggested meeting without the children. Have you not considered that her boy is feeling excluded as you chat with your friend, his sister plays with your friends daughter so exactly what is the boy doing and with whom is he playing? Sounds like he is craving attention !!!!

hooochycoo · 07/03/2018 07:54

children with SEN can be of completely normal intelligence!

You sound very ignorant.

For instance, my friend’s boy has a form of autism called Pathological Demand Avoidance. He presents as a child without SEN , very intelligent and sometimes extremely charming and engaging. Until he can’t cope and he can be very violent, manipulative and say horrible things.

It’s a horrendous condition for a child/ family to cope with. It totally pushes all your buttons and the child’s behaviour makes it very difficult to love and understand them, as they can be so unpredictable violent and nasty.

The key to helping is understanding that the behaviour is anxiety based. But still there’s no quick fix.

hooochycoo · 07/03/2018 07:57

Yes and i’d echo Delores. You may have no idea what your friend and her family are going through in order to get answers and support for her son. She won’t necessarily share that with you.

I definately think she’s well rid of you.

meandmytinfoilhat · 07/03/2018 08:00

If you want to continue with the friendship say something like "we will need to meet without the kids"

hooochycoo · 07/03/2018 08:01

www.autism.org.uk/about/what-is/pda.aspx

This is only one condition that can result in the kind of behaviour that you describe.

There are a myriad of others.

meandmytinfoilhat · 07/03/2018 08:02

I've just read your response. I think that what you've sent isn't great but I understand why you've sent it.

Bogmoppit · 07/03/2018 08:28

I'm glad she hasn't got you in her life anymore.

You gossip, judge, make ignorant comments, sit on issues for months - only to discuss them so her friends can judge her too. You have no idea or empathy for what life with a challenging child is like.

She is well shot of you. You don't sound very intelligent or compassionate.

Booboobooboo84 · 07/03/2018 08:43

I’m not really one for jumping on the sn wagon nor on jumping in on kicking an op but I think you have been massively unfair.

You criticise the Mum for blowing up at her kids for their poor behaviour which then becomes their learned behaviour yet when she answered calmly to her ds that’s also not good enough.

What did you say to the ds because and as I’m not mother I’m happy to be told wrong by just about everyone that as an adult you could have also told him he was wrong and told him you were very upset that he’d said it and that it wasn’t a kind thing to do.

I think she is well shot of someone that couldn’t be honest with her face to face and has been maliciously gossiping behind her back

ushuaiamonamour · 07/03/2018 08:44

libertysilk I'm sorry you're getting responses that must be upsetting for you. That's not the note I would have sent, but the one you did is perfectly okay: It's obviously sincere, it takes the trouble to explain, and you've made it clear that you've nothing against the friend or her son but only against his behaviour. Of course it' would be an enormous hardship for the boy and all his family if he did have SEN but that doesn't really have anything to do with your problem--if someone hits me hard and repeatedly because he has dystonia or is having a nightmare it will hurt just as much & the bruise will be just as livid as if he had done it deliberately. And whatever the reason for his behaviour, you must look after the well-being of your own children. Good luck.

hooochycoo · 07/03/2018 09:47

Thinking about it, most friends just ghost me and over time I realise that DS must be the reason.

One friend told me directly that she didn’t want her daughter around my son , which hurt massively.

I think the first approach hurts less.

But then you are just left with a feeling everyone thinks that you are just a crap parent and paranoia stress and loneliness .

I don’t know. Horribly hard.

Some friends though are wonderful, and actively research how they can help, research and use strategies for interaction with him to get the best out of him, educate their children to be a good friend to him. How to be compassionate and kind but know and assert their boundaries .

They are the people who have kept me sane

Booboobooboo84 · 07/03/2018 09:57

@hooochycoo and those are the friends worth your time Flowers

hooochycoo · 07/03/2018 10:33

yes booboo. thank you

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Explosive_child

Nottheduchessofcambridge · 07/03/2018 10:48

Have I missed the part where OP said the child has SEN? Is it possible that he doesn’t have SEN? I’m not sure where the leap was from a child behaving nastily and SEN. Sometimes a child can behave naughtily just because his/her parents don’t do anything to correct the behaviour. I wouldn’t have sent the message but there’s no way I’d want my DC around a child that hits them.

WellThisIsShit · 07/03/2018 12:35

Can you follow it up with a quick text explaining the main point that you’ve missed out, which is that:

“I’m only mentioning this now because i told a mutual friend about this incident, and she feels it’s her duty to discuss it with you. I didn’t want it to come from someone else first so I felt it best to share that first message with you. I know it must have come out of the blue and I’m so sorry for this, I haven’t handled this well at all”

Because that’s the actual issue isn’t it? That you aren’t going to say anything but because you gossiped to the wrong person, and you’re going to be found out.

I think you have to acknowledge this in some way, otherwise your message reads like a massive sucker punch completely out of the blue, with no other reason except to hurt her... unless you actually explain why.

hooochycoo · 07/03/2018 13:06

nottheduchess,

It's true that the boy in question may not have SEN.

But I think that when children exhibit challenging behaviours it is worth looking into why. Ofcourse behavioural issues can be a normal part of child development or may develop as a result of many circumstances not relating to SEN (including lack of discipline certainly) . But I think it's not a bizarre correlation to make between SEN and challenging behaviour. and of course, SEN children are not immune to naughtiness and still need boundaries. The difference is that those boundaries need to be put in place in different ways than perhaps are expected. Sp
The OP doesn't think the big has SEN because he is intelligent.

Myself and others have made the point that intelligence doesn't mean no SEN, and that she will not necessarily know whether

hooochycoo · 07/03/2018 13:06

nottheduchess,

It's true that the boy in question may not have SEN.

But I think that when children exhibit challenging behaviours it is worth looking into why. Ofcourse behavioural issues can be a normal part of child development or may develop as a result of many circumstances not relating to SEN (including lack of discipline certainly) .
But I think it's not a bizarre correlation to make between SEN and challenging behaviour. and of course, SEN children are not immune to naughtiness and still need boundaries. The difference is that those boundaries need to be put in place in different ways than perhaps are expected. Sp
The OP doesn't think the big has SEN because he is intelligent.

Myself and others have made the point that intelligence doesn't mean no SEN, and that she will not necessarily know whether

hooochycoo · 07/03/2018 13:09

sorry I posted that accidentally too soon before I'd finished editing it. ( pressed the wrong button). Here it is below properly edited...

nottheduchess,

It's true that the boy in question may not have SEN.

Myself and others have made the point that intelligence doesn't mean no SEN, and that she will not necessarily know whether he does have SEN, is in the process of diagnosis or is undiagnosed.

I think that when children exhibit challenging behaviours it is worth looking into why. Ofcourse behavioural issues can be a normal part of child development or may develop as a result of many circumstances not relating to SEN (including lack of discipline certainly) . But I think it's not a bizarre correlation to make between SEN and challenging behaviour. and of course, SEN children are not immune to naughtiness and still need boundaries. The difference is that those boundaries need to be put in place in different ways than perhaps are expected.

Kleinzeit · 07/03/2018 13:47

So first you avoid her for months, then complain about her son to another friend and then This is what I sent....

And this is you trying not to be hurtful? I can't imagine what you do when you want to be offensive. Just don't apply for a job with the United Nations any time soon.

Honestly libertysilk, what was the point of asking MumsNet for advice and then ignoring it?

Wellthisisshit Can you follow it up with a quick text She could but the very first word has to be "sorry" or else it will make things worse not better.

It's not libertysilk's business whether her (ex)friend's DS has SN or not. If she doesn't feel safe around him then she doesn't have to spend time with him or his mother. But she doesn't have to bitch about him to her other friends or send really stupid tactless messages to his mother in an attempt to justify the bitching either.

Good luck coping with the fallout Grin

paap1975 · 07/03/2018 13:50

I don't think there's anything wrong with the message. It's just stating fact.

Thirtyrock39 · 07/03/2018 14:09

I had a situation like this and for years none of us said anything but all discussed the violent child in our circle without being brave enough to talk honestly to the mum about our concerns. It ended up ruining the mums friendships with us as in the end we all distanced ourselves from the child as our children were always hurt by him if we got together
I massively regret not being open and direct when it all first started
It turned out there were issues with the boy and if we had had an honest chat the family may have got support in place a lot earlier
Your text may be very blunt but in the long term may make her realise there is a problem

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