Cultural misappropriation and hair

[meandthem]

Am I being unreasonable to object to ethnicity being a factor in respect of what hairstyle choices women are "allowed"? I am pissed of that it now seems acceptable for some styles to be considered cultural misappropriation. What happened to the sisterhood and feminism and women's right to do what the hell we want with our hair!

Sure mnea, I've had similar. Then if you think of black women whose hair may be even less straight than ours, it's most likely worse for them.

@Elizzaa we aren't talking about rules. There's no law saying white people cant wear dreadlocks. But that doesn't mean it's ok, or respectful. There are lots of things that we don't do despite them not being rules, because we recognise that it's decent. For example, there is no law that prevents me from joining a military wives' choir, but as I'm not a military wife it would be highly inappropriate for me to do so.

I can absolutely understand the frustration of black women when prominent white women in the media get photographed in cornrows and braids and it's hailed as some massively brave, out there style, when black people have been doing these hairstyles forever.
I also understand that hair is still a political issue for black people, in that the decisions made to straighten or weave etc are loaded with meaning in a way that it just isn't for white women. For white women it is just hair.
Having said that I also can't help agreeing with EltonJohn's point about the fact in in real life, the people appropriating braids are teenaged white girls who have very little power themselves let alone the power to engage in meaningful discrimination against others and who are often lacking in confidence. And frequently these are white working class girls who are engaging with the cultures they live amongst. It’s often twinned with snobbery against these girls who don’t twig into the same thought networks as the university educated middle class youngsters who are making these rules.
Thats what I see too, outside of these kind of discussions, out there in the real world. I don't see white lawyers and bankers wearing cornrows, I see 14 year old girls who want to look like their friends.
So really, it's the way the media represents this appropriation, more than what is actually happening on the street.

Mace "The categorisation thing really worries me"

Yes. It's terrifying how far it's gone.

@MaceWindu I don't think anyone is / should be telling mixed race people that they can't participate in their own culture. This discussion is about people who don't belong to a particular culture stealing from it.

River I am Asian, and I have a child who at first glance looks very European. I am no longer with her father. She has an Asian name, she speaks an Asian language, she is fully immersed in Asian culture. Already I have had comments on the appropriateness of her name or dressing her a certain way. She's 3.

I'm mixed race. This subject is a incredibly polarising.

My opinion has already been expressed in one way or another upthread; by MistressDC when for example Marc Jacobs features knots on this models it's 'fashionable', on a black woman.... it's seen as trashy, or rather unprofessional.

Have you seen the film 'Good Hair' by Chris Rock? It should answer why it is such a nightmare.

I'm not going to castigate a woman that styles her hair however she pleases but for certain races it's just not like that.

This might sound a bit random but you can see the sort of style of hair Meghan Markle has. That's not at all how her natural hair is, neither is Mrs Obama's. There is a reason for that.

Surely the answer is to start punishing those who discriminate against BAME hair, rather than (white) women who dont face the same discrimination when they imitate the hairstyle. At the end of the day its hair, people should be allowed to wear their hair any bloody way they want regardless of colour. It doesnt affect how they work. which is why i hate when i see predominately english schools punishing school children because their hair isnt cut to a prescribed style.

I agree IfNot, as I said earlier, wokeness is often used as an excuse to have a go at white working class girls - a group with very little 'privilege' that everyone just loves to disapprove of.

Surely this would apply to food, clothing and everything else we "steal" from other cultures. How about eating curry, pasta or chinese and the way they have been "adapted" to the English taste? Nobody cares.

I grew up in a big city (not in the UK) near a multicultural area which had ethnic hairdressers and when I was 18 I had my hair in braids/corns. It was really cool. Nobody cared. Lots of us as kids ate in the ethnic restaurants and at times swapped ethnic clothes to wear. We thought it was cool and actually really help integration.

I think trying to segregate cultures has its own issues too.

I also lived in an Asian country and was strongly encourage to wear Saris for events. I felt weird at first wearing one but all the locals kept telling me how great I looked and I don't really have problems with it.

People are throwing around the word 'race' withoit even knowing what it refers to.

Homosapiens are one of the same race.

I think some of you mean to say heritage. If someone of mixed hertitage wants to follow the culture of their parents/grandparents, so be it.

@Enuffsenuffsenuff... If you are a military wife you can join the choir, if you are not you can't. Like the over 50s swimming night etc etc ..

Enuff I don't really understand the analogy about suggesting an idea and not getting credit.

Suppose a black woman wears her hair in cornrows. A white woman says, "Wow that looks good! I'm going to do mine the same way!" If someone copies an aspect of a different culture - hair, music, whatever - they are implicitly suggesting approval. Surely that's good?

This is why things never get any better. Saying who can do this and who can't do this. Get a grip and move forward. Saying white people shouldn't have corn rows/dreads is like saying black people shouldn't have blonde hair. Nonsense.

And whatever happened to "imitation is the sincerest form of flattery"?

PS I had problems in an English school with regards to my son's hairstyle and I am not afraid to say I kicked off like an angry baboon.

He has ethnic hair (not black, but thick wiry middle eastern). The school rules are not too short not too long, but as soon as his hair grows more than 2 inches it curls, wires..the teacher made him brush it and it was a nightmare. He was sat in the toilets crying and he was picked on daily as his hair was "untidy" and told to brush it more.

The more he brushed the bigger it became.

He wanted to stop going to school until I went in to "sort it out".

Surely this would apply to food, clothing and everything else we "steal" from other cultures. How about eating curry, pasta or chinese and the way they have been "adapted" to the English taste? Nobody cares.

That is because middle class men like to eat 'world food' and listen to'world music'. Like I say, the hair thing is purely an excuse to sneer at young working class girls. It makes me sad when people go along with it. Wake up! The patriarchy gets off on putting young working class girls down, especially those who dare to be pretty and look like they are having fun. Down with that sort of thing!

the navigator I agree with you

@Elizzaa well then - isn't that having one rule for some people and another rule for others, based on whether they are a part of the requisite culture or group or have the requisite background?

Doesn't that show that it's ok to have rules about when people can and can't participate in something, based on whether they have a shared heritage or not?

Like I say, the hair thing is purely an excuse to sneer at young working class girls

Makes it worse is that those young girls are often actually appreciating the styles of their friends from different backgrounds, they share them together, having fun.

This is the kind of cultural appropriation that annoys me. Designers take their inspiration from many places, but please acknowledge those places. Don't make like you came up with it all on your own.

Dutch wax prints were originally based on Indonesian batik, but they now have a particular style very strongly associated with West Africa.

Enuffsenuffsenuff "soooo... you can't respond to that analogy then? Because this attempt to fling mud instead isn't working as a distraction."

No, that was a cross-post that wasn't specifically directed at you. It would be nice if you assumed good faith on my part though, rather than assuming that because I am disagreeing with you I must be some disingenuous villain.

If it helps the debate along (it shouldn't, but maybe it will), I have never had dreadlocks, braids, cornrows or any other hairstyle that may be considered cultural appropriation, or knowingly engaged in any other cultural appropriation. So I'm not arguing from the point of view of "wanting to continue doing whatever I like". I'm arguing from the point of view of being someone of a long-standing left-liberal persuasion who is uncomfortable with where left of centre politics seems to be going at the current time.

I didn't engage with your analogy because, to be honest, I didn't find it that apt. From my perspective, the issue is one of discrimination rather than credit assignment. We know that certain hairstyles associated with black people tend to lead to discrimination and particularly so when worn by black people. I don't doubt or deny that.

But that is why rather than engage with your analogy, I tried to introduce the example of employment discrimination, which I considered to be more apt in this case. Perhaps you would be willing to engage with that example?

@SwearingMakesEverythingBetter I think that even if the intention is to flatter, it can still be harmful.

Go back to my analogy. How would it make you feel if your colleague got credit for your idea? Would you feel flattered that they obviously thought your idea was good? And if so, would that make up for the fact that they got the credit and praise and you got nothing except your belief that they liked your idea?

And put it in a wider context. One day your colleague is promoted. Your manager tells you it's because they always have such good ideas. But those are your ideas! Your colleague is just taking the work you have done and getting credit for it! Shouldn't that promotion be yours?

That's what happens when people appropriate culture. Those who didn't create the culture get rewarded (maybe it's praise or flattery, maybe it's something more significant like an endorsement deal or a magazine feature) and those who put in the work to create it get nothing. Even if the person taking the culture is doing so because they approve of it, it's still harmful.