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Original poster

Cultural misappropriation and hair

585 replies

meandthem · 03/03/2018 01:33

Am I being unreasonable to object to ethnicity being a factor in respect of what hairstyle choices women are "allowed"? I am pissed of that it now seems acceptable for some styles to be considered cultural misappropriation. What happened to the sisterhood and feminism and women's right to do what the hell we want with our hair!

OP posts:
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SpringHen · 03/03/2018 18:11

s3.favim.com/orig/151217/celtic-dreads-epic-fantasy-Favim.com-3773973.jpg

I dont think celtic style dreads like this look like other types of dreads and braids so I do think its a stretch to make them out of bounds for cultural appropriatiom reasons

SpringHen · 03/03/2018 18:16

Also Celtic traits are often frowned upon and the butt of jokes in this part of the world (ginger hair) going the whole hog with dreads is a way of reclaiming and being proud no?

specialsubject · 03/03/2018 18:16

If a hairstyle causes that much of an issue then that is the problem. I am horrified that people get told that a hairstyle isn't professional. As long as it isn't all over your face and isn't getting in food if that is your job then where is the problem?

Some jobs do mandate hair tied back if longer. They should not mandate degree of curl or otherwise.

Echobelly · 03/03/2018 18:19

Overall, I feel that making an effort to call out people slagging off black hair and fashion would be a more productive effort that calling out white women for sometimes wearing them. It just feels like a waste of anger.

A lot of POC don't care about white people wearing black-influenced styles, but everyone should care about POC getting stick for wearing hair or clothing styles that reflect their own culture and try to stop it.

LaLaLanded · 03/03/2018 18:37

Echobelly unfortunately everyone doesn’t care about black people getting stick - at least not enough to vocalise. Unless the racism is overt, it sometimes goes over people’s heads or they just don’t feel comfortable saying anything.

I’ve been in situations where someone has said something to me that makes everyone feel uncomfortable, but nobody has said anything because the racism wasn’t overt. My hair, my skin, my nose - these are all things that can be commented on publically and nobody but me will say anything. Then I feel like I’m being ‘the angry black woman’.

Also black people have been calling out racism since, well, forever. Much like women have been calling out sexual assault and harassment. The civil rights movement happened, in it’s own way, in the UK.

We are not just dealing with overt racism, and everything needs to be called out.

TheFirstMrs yes that’s the issue I have with it - they aren’t Bo Derek braids. But she has been brought up in a certain space and having a mixed-race child doesn’t change that - it’s a process of learning.

VladmirsPoutine · 03/03/2018 18:46

@Echobelly That would be the ideal situation but unfortunately we are far, very far from there.

Certcert · 03/03/2018 18:47

Every situation is different - Kim Kardashian has a mixed race daughter and son, yes. Her situation is nuanced. However I would argue that her posting a sexy photo online and calling them ‘Bo Derek’ braids indicates that she wasn’t exactly thinking of her daughter’s cultural experience...

Not that I care for KK but if she had said, for example "Beyonce braids" or "certcert braids", she would have been roasted and called a wannabe.

She most likely said "Bo Derek braids", because that woman who wore them was 'white', too. And, even then, she got flamed.

So, should she not have worn them at all?

IllustriouslyIllogical · 03/03/2018 18:48

But if the descendants are also looked down upon for the ping pong ball thing?

But what if everyone with a ping pong ball is looked down upon - by the people with Bentleys?? Which is pretty much the case isn't it.

Dreads on white people aren't particularly highly regarded - see my previous, partially joking, comment about them only being for white narrowboat owners - they're associated with "hippy"types in general.

Even whatsherface that was in the news recently for having them - she's not been given many "wows" from anyone, privileged or not....

Some ideas are just destined to be looked down on by our "betters", surely if people from other cultures use them too it either dilutes the contempt, or makes the idea more mainstream & harder to treat with contempt.

The best way to keep the situation exactly as it is, is to ensure that only a small subset of people can wear them & continue to be looked down on by everyone else.....

Certcert · 03/03/2018 18:52

My hair, my skin, my nose - these are all things that can be commented on publically and nobody but me will say anything. Then I feel like I’m being ‘the angry black woman'

This. I've experienced it too. It's awful.

Laiste · 03/03/2018 18:54

Why did she (KK) have to call the bloomin' braids anything?

Certcert · 03/03/2018 18:56

Laiste, that's what I thought.

IllustriouslyIllogical · 03/03/2018 18:56

I find this a bit distasteful. Even if it’s people in the UK who have never met a Native American or previously done anything actively to oppress them, I feel like it’s treating their culture as a trivial fun thing or a costume to be played with.

See, I honestly find this just a bit soppy. We're in the UK, If some bloke in Manchester want's a tattoo of a "sexy squaw", "Tonto" or a fecking Totem Pole on his arm - it's 99>999% likely because he likes the bloody picture rather than a deep seated desire to appropriate, mock or discriminate against a Native American.

But people are determined to read too much into it, to attribute far too much thought to it & to assume that people are "appropriating" things when actually they're bimbling along living their life for themselves, not poking their noses into other peoples business & not getting righteously offended on behalf of others - which is exactly as it should be.

VladmirsPoutine · 03/03/2018 18:57

The Kim Kardashian case is rather nuanced, not sure who used that term just upthread but I agree. It certainly is. She and at least 2 of her sisters seem to have a penchant for black men. I recall getting in a very heated debate about their taste in black men. I personally think you like who you like and you can't really help it. No-one would have questioned it at all if they were all dating white men. And there is a huge debate regarding black men that become successful only dating white women.

This is perhaps a US-centric issue but the same argument has been made with regards to black footballers of which there are many in the UK. There is a reason why most, for example, hip-hop videos feature light-skinned black women. Bonus if you get one with blue eyes.

The issue is the ingrained prejudice in society, IMHO. Not a white woman somewhere in Shoreditch that has decided to cornrow her hair.

VladmirsPoutine · 03/03/2018 19:05

On another note; The angry black woman stereotype that serves to strip black women of their opinions and voices because it's just another angry black woman ranting is a tragic indictment of our society.

That little black girls will need to censor their voices - not because it's just what you do in life to be respectful to others - but because she doesn't want to add to the 'angry black woman' stereotype. It is tragic that little dark-skinned black girls touch my hair and look in to my eyes and tell me they wished they "looked like me", because I have long blonde hair and blue eyes yet I'm still part black - still part like them.

Riverside2 · 03/03/2018 19:15

Enuff "This discussion is about people who don't belong to a particular culture stealing from it."

How do you decide who belongs to which culture?

Certcert · 03/03/2018 19:17

The issue is the ingrained prejudice in society, IMHO. Not a white woman somewhere in Shoreditch that has decided to cornrow her hair.

Spot on!

LaLaLanded · 03/03/2018 19:17

Vladimirs nuanced was me. It’s a whole dynamic there - I’m mixed race so have no issue with interracial relationships whatsoever. But when you have mixed children there is a responsibility to be ‘woke’ (I used the word!) to potential experiences, and your own actions.

Fuck the ‘angry black woman’ stereotype. Angry, big-bottomed, emasculating... that’s the narrative. It took me too long to find my voice and fight back against racism - and not to apologise for myself.

Honestly, I just want a level playing field for my son, who will be a ‘big black man’ to any white person who looks at him. - despite being a quarter black, he will be treated as such. I don’t want stop and search for him - I want parity. The fact that UK society doesn’t recognise that there are still endemic problems in the system is sad.

This is about so much more than hair...

TheNavigator · 03/03/2018 19:19

She and at least 2 of her sisters seem to have a penchant for black men

Or maybe they fell in love with men who are black? It can happen, you know.....

VladmirsPoutine · 03/03/2018 19:30

@TheNavigator I take it that you read and fully understood my post? No? Thought not.

TheNavigator · 03/03/2018 19:35

I read and understood your post to be a bit misogynistic. The Kardashians do seem to bring that trait out in people - I can understand why, but it needs to be challenged, nonetheless.

Clem7 · 03/03/2018 19:37

IllustriouslyIllogical
Sorry but I disagree. I think people wearing characatures of an oppressed culture as a some sort of fashion statement is pretty distasteful (even if not deliberately disrespectful). Similarly, I don’t think the name/logo of the Washington Redskins is remotely appropriate.

Certcert · 03/03/2018 19:38

I read and understood your post to be a bit misogynistic. The Kardashians do seem to bring that trait out in people - I can understand why, but it needs to be challenged, nonetheless. Hmm

In what way?

PerrieGrey · 03/03/2018 19:40

I am part black. I wear my hair in braids, corn rows, natural, straightened. I couldn't care less how people want to wear their hair. It annoyed me slightly yes, when Kim Kardashian corn rowed her hair and claimed to have invented boxer braids when actually, African women had been wearing these styles for centuries. I feel the issue there however was not giving credit where credit was due. In terms of how people want to wear their hair however, it doesn't bother me. People are free to do as they wish and different styles look beautiful on different people.

VladmirsPoutine · 03/03/2018 19:46

This is about so much more than hair...

@LaLaLanded Amen. I totally agree.

Speedy85 · 03/03/2018 19:48

Echobelly unfortunately everyone doesn’t care about black people getting stick - at least not enough to vocalise. Unless the racism is overt, it sometimes goes over people’s heads or they just don’t feel comfortable saying anything.

I’m sorry for your experience. This is where I think white people need to step up and do more. I do call people out when I notice things - eg on a rare occasion when someone with natural Afro hair has been on TV my husband has said ‘I don’t like her hair’ and I have tried to explain that that is what natural hair looks like and they should be free to wear it like that. I genuinely think most people are completely clueless about natural hair texture because it is so rare that someone is allowed on TV with it. The ‘Good Hair’ documentary that someone mentioned earlier was really enlightening.

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