To ask why the hell energy companies keep desperately trying to push SMART METERS?

[Peekaboo3]

Just that.

Why?

Hell will freeze over before I have them.

My energy provider has sent me a letter saying ...

'We are now ready to install your smart meters. Just one phone call, and we will install the meters at your convenience yada yada.'

With the way they've worded it, it sounds almost like you have no choice.

We do have a choice of course. And my choice is no.

It is NOT compulsory. So they can piss off bugging me.

But WHY do they keep pushing these bloody things?

WHY?

I accidentally forget about an appointment and never rearranged. I definitely won't before October then. Cheers!

I have a friend who is very high up in an energy company and they've told me not to get a smart meter because the technology isn't brilliant and the majority of the first generation ones are breaking down and having to be replaced.

Also there is proof hackers can get access to your wi fi via smart meters but that fact is being hushed up.

I did a detailed thread about it a few years ago: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/other_subjects/1327330-Anyone-having-a-gas-leccy-meter-replaced-with-a-Smart-Meter-Something-you-need-to-know

It's not up-to-date, but the basics are sound. The biggest update is simply that we've experienced more major cyberattacks and software failures affecting major national infrastructure (WannaCry hitting the NHS, the IT collapse which grounded 100s of BA flights in May).

So the questions like "Surely no one would want to attack Smart Meters?" and "Surely they couldn't be crashed by accident?" have pretty much been answered. Yes, people will want to attack; yes, companies will risk total IT failures which cost them millions of £.

I am surprised there is so much that people can do with smart meters regarding hacking etc when Eon can't even make my dumb meter smart again that they installed 2 years ago

We just got one the other week.

I am horrified by the cost of our gas.

Even when we are out for most of the day and only having the heating on about 3 hours a day it's costing us about £5-6 a day.

Is this normal?

I was off work sick on Weds and was too scared to keep the heating on even though it was snowing because it costs so much.

The disconnecting and switching to prepayment is not a motivation for us. It WAS until it became apparent that we still would not be allowed to do it due to the regulator.

Doodlekitty, can you get me a reference for that? I'm pleased to hear the regulator has stamped on this, because as you say, it was part of the utility companies' original plans. But I'd like to read the actual details.

Because the thing about paper regulation is that it can be changed at the stroke of a pen. Once millions of meters with the capability for trickle-disconnection and prepay switching are physically installed, it becomes a matter of regulatory whim whether the functions are used or not. This time next year, the regulations could be different.

I read somewhere that the only thing smart meters do is make elderly people turn their heating off because they see how much it is costing.
I also watched a programme about people on low incomes where a woman was unplugging her fridge while she had her job on because the smart meter showed she was using too much electricity with both on!

*hob not job!

@cakeandphotos

I have never heard anyone sound so gobsmaxked as the SE man did when he rang and asked when we would be convenient to install our smart metre and I said never. He just didn’t get why I didn’t want one.

THIS ^

Some people just don't like to hear NO. They demand reasons.

I don't have to give any. I have a few, but I don't have to say what they are.

@InsomniacAnonymous

I don't understand your objection. I'd rather pay for what I have actually used. Btw, since we have had a water meter our water bills have plummeted.

What on earth are you talking about? We DO pay for what we use. Everyone does.

They've really brainwashed you haven't they? Trying to convince me (and yourself) that traditional meters don't keep a record of what you use. Of course they do!!!

@squishysquirmy

Why would a government want to roll out smart meters? Its to do with energy transition, and balancing the national grid...

Nobody knows for sure exactly what our energy system will look like in the future, nor the exact mix of generation we will rely on - technology is changing all the time..
What we can be fairly certain of is that it will be different to what we are used to, and that the energy market will be increasingly decentralised, probably with an increased reliance on intermittent supplies of energy.

Balancing a grid in these circumstances will be much more complicated than it was in the past - an excess of supply can overload the system, whilst not enough supply will cause blackouts/drop in power.

Got to you and brainwashed you too have they? All this is possible with traditional meters you know.

@piffpaffpoff

DH works for a major utility provider. He says we will get one over his dead body!

Interesting......... Does he say why???

@elphame

I'm just ignoring all messages from my provider. They keep trying.... I don't want one and won't have one and there is nothing they can do about it. It will benefit them far more than it will benefit me.

This. ^ I won't be having one, even if they ARE being (supposedly) forced by the government to bully 'encourage' everyone to have one.

Lots of people have posted on here that they are not arsed with them/don't want one/hell will freeze over first etc, so it's clear I am not alone.

I have also heard from a number of people that their bills are now higher. Very interesting.

So if the companies are no longer permitted to remotely switch to prepay, or to trickle-disconnection, that is a major update.

Overhere the smart meters are already universal (i.e. you don't have to change meters if you change companies) but I'm still not having one.

I really don't need the energy company to moniitor when I'm home or away, and I really really don't need them to be able to disconnect me remotely from a central point.

Also, it means all the people who now go around checking meters are going to be out of a job, which is a significant amount of people.

If that means that I might be paying more than I would with a smart meter, so be it. I like my privacy and I like people being able to work if they want to.

We’ve got one because one of the old ones packed up (I swear it had occasions where it went backwards). Why can’t you switch suppliers? Dont the new company come out and fit a new meter?

Hi all... i work in the industry, and happy to clarify this is a government mandate.
The energy industry has to demonstrate its made EVERY effort to offer 84% of the country a smart meter by 2020.

If not they can be fined up to 10% of turnover. Of course the government haven't mandated that customers must have them, only that customers must be offered them.

The benefits are undoubtedly weighted on the side of the energy industry, but not in the ways described above. Yes its less effort/overheads to maintain customer accounts, bill accurately, switch customers to different tariffs or in and out of their supply, but that isn't really where the benefit is.

The real value to the industry comes at the SUPPLY level, not the billing level. The national grid its on its knees. Demand increases year on year. Current power stations cant support us and we currently buy in huge amounts of gas AND electricity from foreign markets (currently circa 20-25% of our electricity comes from France)

New power stations being built will take 15-20 years to complete, and until then keeping the right amount of gas and electricity produced, bought, stored, made available for 65 million people is incredibly complex and runs the completely feasible possibility of 'running out' of either fuel.

Remember the intermittent power, and black outs in the 70's/80s? When having gas central heating in a home was a luxury? Those days could easily come back unless a the industry can minutely and universally track and monitor consumer supply and demand. (as SpecialSubject described)

Ultimately thats what the program will deliver, it will take far longer than 2020 to see the benefits, and i can absolutely say that any cost benefits of such control would never be passed onto the consumer.

Just wanted to set the record straight, as I work for one of the big bad energy companies, and it is genuinely disheartening to hear people have such poor experiences and lay the blame on the suppliers.

The whole country needs the program to work, to ensure continuity of supply for future generations. The suppliers havent helped themselves in some cases, poor marketing, slow uptake, etc but the balls up in delivery does not fall solely on their shoulders.

Soap box over - happy to answer any questions! Im prepared for flames!

We moved into a house with a BG smart meter. We actually have to keep it (or something like it) because one of the meters doesn't even have a display, it only feeds to the darn smart meter. But we switched immediately from their provider BG to another of the big 6, chasing a deal; and we've switched again since then for another deal. We''d need to be on our third meter by now!! I actually lodged a complaint with my last provider as they were badgering me to have a meter, I told them that I hadn't supplied my phone number to be hounded with marketing texts on that topic.

Isn't it a waste of money though to fit them when they turn dumb when you change supplier as you can save much more money by changing supplier than looking at a screen which tells you you are using a lot of energy boiling a kettle.

I have now got dumb meter which was smart for about 3 months, which I don't mind but it seems like a money wasting exercise.

Maybe that should have been sorted out before they were rolled out.

DerbyshireDad17 does the country really need every single household to have a smart meter to assess the amount of energy required? Why could the industry not treat the results from the smart meters already installed as a representative sample and extrapolate the results. How many are currently fitted?

Definitely: the roll out began without a standard system. Some companies pushed first for their system. The others didn't agree.

So the regulator stepped in and set up a centralised company and system: which is yet to go live due to several years of red tape crap.

The suppliers couldn't halt their roll out because the deadline has remained... again, not the suppliers fault.

The existing meters still have value though but will need to be upgraded at the end of their life span

Not being funny, but I really don't give a shit how many pennies it costs me to boil the kettle. And I don't really see how it will be any more accurate than what I have now

Maybe it will get people to use less energy than they need to?

Such as when people boil a kettle, why not only boil the water people need?

Or half loads or full loads?

Less lights on?

Less things on standby?

If you can see which things use energy, then you can see if you waste energy and then use less of it - and that's a good thing, isn't it?

DerbyshireDad17 does the country really need every single household to have a smart meter to assess the amount of energy required? Why could the industry not treat the results from the smart meters already installed as a representative sample and extrapolate the results. How many are currently fitted?

Yeah I don't buy much of what that poster says either.

I think some people are being brainwashed by the industry. (And some people are being intimidated and fed bullshit, and are scared...)

Not me though.

Smart meters can fuck off.

Pleasebeafleabite

Fair question: the answer is that simply, running different systems as an infrastructure wouldnt work. the costs in maintaining two or three different measuring capabilities, would be completely inefficient.

ITs not just domestic consumers, the program to upgrade all businesses across all industries is also already massively underway.

Theres also the issue of accuracy. there are still several million mechanical meters for gas and electricity, which degrade over time, and lose accuracy, and also provide potential safety problems. The upgrade program provides an opportunity to ensure all new meters and more importantly, the wiring/piping that supports them are up to current standards and safe.

This is why many people will find brand new cables, and or pipes installed following their meter upgrade. (the state of some households installations would truly shock people - figuratively and literally)

Peekaboo3

Thanks for that. I don't work in the Smart Metering sector, and don't remember my brainwashing on my company induction, though thats maybe all part of the devious plan!

Maybe jet fuel really doesn't melt steel beams...

kalapattar

Absolutely right - smart meters aren't magic, people have to pay attention to them if they want to cut their own energy use, and subsequently their own costs.

And again - consumers do not have to have one... the suppliers have to demonstrate they have made every effort to offer you one.

And again - consumers do not have to have one... the suppliers have to demonstrate they have made every effort to offer you one

I've got a meter that attaches to plugs so I know how much power they consume. I don't need a smart meter for that - I know which devices consume a lot.

I can't do that for the gas obviously - but I am capable of reading the gas meter at the start and the end of the day and knowing how many units were used and what that cost me.

we had one installed by ovo recently.
it avoids the faff of reading it and results in accurate bills.
we change supplier frequently. worst case scenario is that it wont be compatible and ill have to go back to meter readings.

natasha