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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Is This Inappropriate?

145 replies

ExcuseTheCheese · 28/02/2018 23:42

We had the whole 'coolest monkey in the jungle' thing but I saw the jumper first whilst looking for some clothes for DD, in the search results all you see is the jumper and not the model. I thought it was an odd thing to put on a child's jumper in all honesty, I thought it should perhaps say boss. Anyway, I clicked on the other pictures and saw the ethnicity of the model and thought that someone, somewhere has made a massive error in judgement and that this is actually quite inappropriate. AIBU?

Is This Inappropriate?
OP posts:
VladmirsPoutine · 01/03/2018 13:42

your ethnic perspective.

I was with you until this point. You honestly have no idea. You really don't.

Mummyoflittledragon · 01/03/2018 13:43

I don’t think it’s a particularly good slogan. I would never look at that and think of this as a child slave becoming their own master. The world has moved on a lot thank goodness. It’s just a t-shirt for me personally.

maddiemookins16mum · 01/03/2018 13:46

See now I read it as be the master of your own destiny. Obviously some people (when looking for yet something else to be mortally offended by) will think of something else.

ReggaetonLente · 01/03/2018 13:46

Roman slavery - 2,000 years ago, and used as a weapon of war. We can’t ascertain how many Brits were enslaved here or sent to Rome - but the population of Roman Britain was around 4 million.

Atlantic slave trade - ran from the 16th to 19th centuries, finally abolished about 200 years ago. Used to make white oriole money. 12.5 million Africans shipped to the New World alone, probably more to Europe but records weren’t so good. Has left a lasting legacy of economic depression, conflict and political instability in Africa, and a legacy of racism.

But tell me more about how you think they’re of equal consideration.

SnibbleAgain · 01/03/2018 13:50

Master is an incredibly loaded word

I think for poeple to say "I'm not racist and I don't see any loading into it therefore I am right end of story" are a bit...

I think they say that the people who claim to have no bias are usually the worst for bias? That was what we learnt on our unconscious bias training at work.

Aeroflotgirl · 01/03/2018 13:51

Why can't children be masters of their own destiny, or aim towards that. Work hard at school, be polite and kind, can't go far wrong. I would rather this, than the girls things, '"born gorgeous", "beautiful and cute". I think people are looking for offence where there is none.

SnibbleAgain · 01/03/2018 13:51

It's nonsensical anyway.

So even if you don't object on race grounds
Or s& m overtone grounds

Then why not object on the grounds that it's cobblers.

strawberriesaregood · 01/03/2018 13:52

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TheFirstMrsDV · 01/03/2018 13:55

I don't think its inappropriate.
Even if you did make the connection with slavery surely a black child wearing the slogan 'be your own master' is positive?

I wouldn't mind my boys wearing it.

Fekko · 01/03/2018 13:56

I’d object purely on the grounds that my 13 year old already thinks he runs the world. I don’t want him getting more ideas.

DaveTheDesigner · 01/03/2018 13:59

strawberriesaregood

Is it not racist to assume my ethnicity? You can only have come to a conclusion that I'm white (that's presumably what you were inferring by the use of the word majority) by my name.

To be clear, you accused some of us of 'shutting down debate'

I'm not lecturing anyone. That's your take on my opinion.

strawberriesaregood · 01/03/2018 14:06

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

YetAnotherHelenMumsnet · 01/03/2018 14:18

Hi everyone,
We are receiving a significant number of reports about this thread, and have made several deletions as we considered them to be goady at the very least. Please can we ask that if people are participating in a discussion on the MN boards that they do so in good faith, avoiding whataboutery and undermining?
Of course not everyone will have the same view, but if we can try to keep to our guidelines www.mumsnet.com/info/netiquette we can keep the conversation flowing.
Many thanks.

SnibbleAgain · 01/03/2018 14:20

?

It doesn't say "master of your own destiny" >> future

It says "be your own master"

Which I wouldn't take to mean "Work hard at school, be polite and kind" as for most people doing those things will have very little impact on their "destiny" >> social mobility is very very low, and politeness and kindness might actually impede you (depending on where you want to get to).

Anyway I take "be your own master" to be (as others have said) more like "be your own boss" AKA follow your own rules / don't listen to "the man" / make your own way / do what you think not what you are told, that sort of thing. It's a "rebel" call. To me.

I find the interpretation of "be your own master" on a child to mean "do what you're told at school and be kind" to be a bit of a stretch to be honest!

TheFirstMrsDV · 01/03/2018 14:25

If I was going to interpret it on race grounds I would interpret it as a Black Power slogan

I am not dismissing anyone's views. I am genuinely baffled.
I have objected to teeshirt slogans, I don't call people snowflakes for caring and I totally got why people were pissed off at the Monkey advert.

Don't get this one though. I can see the picture very well so just checking it says what I think it does.
'Be your own master'?

clownfaces · 01/03/2018 14:33

Yes MrsD that is what it says. I didn't see the monkey advert so can't comment, but I really can't see what is so offensive about this one.
It obv has upset some people though.
Dave describing someone's view as their ethnic perspective is pretty shit in my view.

Aeroflotgirl · 01/03/2018 14:35

Snibble rather like "we don't need no education, we don't need no false control, hey teacher, leave us kids alone!"

Actually that springs to mind when reading this t shirt.

Mummyoflittledragon · 01/03/2018 14:50

Reggae
Romans enslaved people from the entire Roman Empire and not just for war, even physicians and accountants were often slaves. You’re quoting one country, which due to the timeline had a vastly smaller population than in 16th-19th century and comparing it to the enslavement of an entire very large continent during more recent times.

The Romans weren’t the only ones to enslave. The Greeks did it. Slavs from Eastern Europe were imprisoned by Spanish Muslims in the 9th century. We had serfdoms in Europe, which existed in places like Austria until almost the end of 18th century and Russia in 1860. No serfs weren’t chattel to be bought and sold. Instead they had to tend the land, weren’t allowed to leave without permission, couldn’t own the land and worked to eat. If the land was sold, the serfs were transferred en masse to serve the next land owner. Entire countries lived this feudal system from around 11th century, in fact, I think a lot of the European continent did. The last serfs in Britain were in 1574 so that’s 500 years of forced enslavement. The Romans also had such a system for a while. Serfdom in Britain was pretty much then replaced with indentured servitude after the peasants revolt so also grim but at least people could earn themselves free.

All slavery is atrocious. Black people are still feeling it because enslavery of their people ended such a disgustingly short time ago. Of course as a nation we should bloody well remember what happened and feel shame for what our ancestors did to our fellow humans for profit. And none of what I have said above is trying to excuse or say the abduction, murder and enslavement of millions of black people wasn’t anything other than barbaric.

In 400 years time, we will probably all be mixed raced - as we are already, it’s just such ancient history - and people then will hopefully look back at slavery as something very much in the past. However, for that to happen, the approximate 40.3 million slaves of one kind or another around the world will have to be set free.

All of that said, of course, I do not understand your anger. I understand my anger as Caucasian woman. But not yours.

LadyDeadpool · 01/03/2018 14:59

“Be your own master, and look at things as a man, as a human being, as a citizen, as a mortal creature.”

― Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

So we're getting offended over ancient philosophers quotes now? Seriously stop, you're all rushing to say everything is racist, if you're white your opinion on if this top is racist doesn't count for shit it's not up to you what's racist and what's not.

Is This Inappropriate?
caperberries · 01/03/2018 15:03

Who is selling this shirt anyway? Is it H&M again?

FabulouslyFab · 01/03/2018 15:04

You’re making a fuss over nothing. It should be taken at face value and if you are going to be outraged I think that’s sad.

SundaysFunday · 01/03/2018 15:08

Master of your own destiny

ReggaetonLente · 01/03/2018 15:12

All of that said, of course, I do not understand your anger. I understand my anger as Caucasian woman. But not yours.

I’m not angry! I never have been, on this whole thread. But thank you for the interesting run down on world slavery - I have a degree in history but I focused on contemporary, so my knowledge on the Romans is rusty to say the least!

I was responding to a rather flippant PP who was engagingly in some whataboutery.

And sorry - but even if I was angry - I have no obligation to try and make you understand why.

PatriarchyPersonified · 01/03/2018 15:18

Strawberriesaregood

Sigh, not this again.

Is This Inappropriate?
Mummyoflittledragon · 01/03/2018 15:19

I never said you did have to explain your anger. I was actually talking about the anger of what was done to an entire continent. Not the shirt. Sorry for the assumption.

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