To have really noticed a decline in nhs

[Lime123]

Before I rant, I know it’s not the fault of drs nurses and other staff that work for nhs. They do a wonderful job under pretty stressful conditions I would imagine.

In the last year I have noticed a real decline in the quality of service offered by nhs. Up until then I had just thought it was “daily mail” type moaning by others. In last 6 months I’ve noticed:

-my miscarriage handled badly, told I needed an Erpc due to gestation BUT that there were limited slots so wait it out and hope I don’t bleed lots. If I did bleed lots rush to A and e.

-an ambulance failing to turn up for a child having breathing problems (was croup but extremely scary!) they were very apologetic but said not enough staff

-I might as well not bother with my gp. You have to call at 8am, get grilled by a receptionist and she will decide if the appointment is urgent enough for same day (in my case a lump) was told not “acute” and can I wait 4 weeks for a “regular gp appointment” if you call st 8:01 or later it’s unlikely you will get an appointment.

-a family member receiving absolutely awful advice on 111 “take paracetamol and rest” unfortunately he later required 2 operations to fix a serious health condition

-a friend having a terrible birth experience due to lack of staff and support (in particular post natal) she ended up discharging herself

There are many more. All I’ve heard are horror stories from friends lately.

I am seriously getting worried for the nhs! I’ve never seen it this bad. It’s only going to get worse surely before it just won’t function anymore.

What do people think will happen? How on earth can it be fixed?

Lots of myths and anecdotes that fail to give the true picture.

1 - NHS outcomes are actually much better and improving in many/most areas such as breast cancer, prostate cancer, stroke, cardiac disease, childhood cancers, infectious diseases (measles etc), end stage renal disease, serious burns, prematurity.
2- Funding has fallen in real terms over a decade. Costs have increased, inflation continues, demand increases.
3- The NHS is still one of the most effective healthcare systems in the world (despite underfunding)
4- Much of the NHS is already in private hands. Things like out of hours scans might well be read in New Zealand or India. Most catering and housekeeping is outsourced. Mortuary and pathology are often outsourced as are anaesthetics. GPs have long been in private ownership. Increasingly friont line services are outsourced including community services such as health visiting and community hospitals, sexual health services and palliative care.
5 Virgin don’t actually profit from NHS contracts at the moment. They subsidise the services they provide quite heavily through their global support systems such as IT, legal services, data management and corporate governance.

You can’t jusy introduce a health insurance scheme. What do you think will happen to all those who have pre-existing medical conditions, costly medications and so on? Look at the American system - people who are insured being made bankrupt and homeless, companies using any possible excuse not to pay for treatment, companies insisting unstable patients are transferred to a different hospital, uninsured vulnerable patients being dumped on the side of the road in hospital gowns and no shoes...

What behaviour have you ever seen from private corporations to make you think they’re suitable to be involved in healthcare?

Our system works fairly well, a mix of public and private.

Tax system has a levy. If you earn above a certain amount and don’t have private insurance they increase the levy. Those on social security/very low income earners don’t pay any levy at all as they don’t earn enough.

Put simply if you don’t have private insurance you use a public hospital. In a public hospital the procedures themselves are funded by Medicare which is federal government funding and the hospitals the procedures are conducted in are funded by state government health funding. If you use a private hospital the procedures themselves are funded by Medicare (federal government funding) at the same ‘base rate’ they would be in the public system and are topped up by the private health insurance. The private hospital the procedure is conducted in is funded solely by your private health insurance.

Of course it’s not that simple and cut and dried. Certain medical conditions can only be dealt with in the public system (generally by tertiary teaching hospitals with specialised expertise), if you are in an accident you pretty much automatically get taken to a public hospital a&e etc. The private hospitals are more for planned ‘routine’ things such as obstetrics, tonsils, grommets, joint replacements etc. Essentially they are meant to take the pressure off the public hospitals for routine stuff. Sure the system is not perfect and could be better but it works fairly well.

Fancy the vast majority of our private system is run by private corporations. The minority of our private system is run by religious not for profit organisations. The majority of our private system is REALLY well run and offers excellent healthcare service. You seem to be fixated on the US system in regards to the example of private healthcare and I agree that system is completely unjust, broken and has nothing to recommend it. There are other countries outside the US that use private health models that work well. Maybe a combination or adjustment of these models could work well in the UK?

My postnatal care was dire. Dads allowed to sleep next to postpartum women just because there are no staff to care properly. I am so angry at this I cannot express it. It is disgusting and one day soon a violent partner of a woman who cannot seek help as she gets no time alone with staff, is going to do something harming a mother or child, and then hopefully people will see how hugely inappropriate it is for men to be on postnatal wards and sharing facilities. Absolutely fucking horrendous.

starlightafar my DD felt exactly the same when she had her last baby in hospital. She discharged herself rather than stay on a ward with 5 other women and 5 men. In what other situation would you be expected to share a space overnight with 5 men you'd never met before and had no idea of who they were let alone when you've just given birth and are at your most vulnerable.

"I think some sort of health insurance scheme has to be part of the solution."

National insurance was kind of supposed to be that. When first introduced it was intended to be at least partly "an insurance against illness" for the working class. That this system hasn't been maintained properly doesn't mean it couldn't be reviewed and improved.

Hoppingpavlova - sorry think I missed the info - where are you?

What behaviour have you ever seen from private corporations to make you think they’re suitable to be involved in healthcare?

Whenever I've had private medical treatment it's been amazing!

It is hardly surprising when it is systematically underfunded, and made less and less attractive for front line staff to work in.

Scrapping of NHS bursaries and new junior doctor contract have exacerbated the issues caused by underfunding.

I've been waiting for therapy since September (I was assessed and they felt a need, referred me to a ward that dealt with my illness). Only just received phone call today from that ward for me to come in for another assessment in March. So, that's not even the start of therapy.
Mental health system and waiting lists are dire.

Simple solution lets pay more tax. Lets cut our alcohol, smoking, fatty foods and sugars, and start to walk everywhere instead of driving in our 4x4 to drop of little DS and DD to school.

The fact of the matter is that it costs a hell of a lot of cash to fund the NHS, but we as individuals don't take the responsibility ourselves to look after our health, instead we rely on pills to sort our health probs out.

Flame me if you want but thats what people are afraid to say in this PC world...

No one who votes Tory should complain about the NHS. They have absolutely butchered it.

Labour fucked it as well. Its impossible NOT to fuck with it, its a behemoth, barely fit for purpose.

No one who votes Tory should complain about the NHS. They have absolutely butchered it

As did Labour before them - shall we all shout "PFI or bust"... a la Milburn...

@JaneEyre70
Absolutely
If I had had an appendix removed I would have no men on my ward after 9pm visiting
Have a C Section and a catheter, drip, newborn and leaky breasts and bleeding vagina, with no underwear on except hospital knickers and a pad, and no bra, no shoes, not able to move and on morphine, drowsy and vulnerable, and I am expected to have someone's bloke less than a foot away behind a curtain because some woman has decided her right to have her partner there trumps everyone else's right to be safe and comfortable after birthing a baby, and what's worse, that hospital policy has bought into those ridiculous views, to put all women at risk
It is commonly recognised that DV escalates during pregnancy and after birth
The poor women who will never be helped with that because of such utter stupidity is tragic.

It’s not sustainable at this level. The population growth and type of service users has put a massive strain on quality of service provided. I agree with poster upthread short of putting up taxes or cutting services available it won’t change.
I think the principles it was based on are not workable in modern Britain society and needs are completely different now.

Yy Labour butchering the NHS completely agree the legacy is continuing from Labour decisions that we’re all living with the consequences.

How about "it's universal socialised healthcare that is now unworkable " rather than the two parties' cack-handed attempts at "fixing " it?
We are just too scared as a nation to talk about it.