To have really noticed a decline in nhs

[Lime123]

Before I rant, I know it’s not the fault of drs nurses and other staff that work for nhs. They do a wonderful job under pretty stressful conditions I would imagine.

In the last year I have noticed a real decline in the quality of service offered by nhs. Up until then I had just thought it was “daily mail” type moaning by others. In last 6 months I’ve noticed:

-my miscarriage handled badly, told I needed an Erpc due to gestation BUT that there were limited slots so wait it out and hope I don’t bleed lots. If I did bleed lots rush to A and e.

-an ambulance failing to turn up for a child having breathing problems (was croup but extremely scary!) they were very apologetic but said not enough staff

-I might as well not bother with my gp. You have to call at 8am, get grilled by a receptionist and she will decide if the appointment is urgent enough for same day (in my case a lump) was told not “acute” and can I wait 4 weeks for a “regular gp appointment” if you call st 8:01 or later it’s unlikely you will get an appointment.

-a family member receiving absolutely awful advice on 111 “take paracetamol and rest” unfortunately he later required 2 operations to fix a serious health condition

-a friend having a terrible birth experience due to lack of staff and support (in particular post natal) she ended up discharging herself

There are many more. All I’ve heard are horror stories from friends lately.

I am seriously getting worried for the nhs! I’ve never seen it this bad. It’s only going to get worse surely before it just won’t function anymore.

What do people think will happen? How on earth can it be fixed?

Not delay medicine fetal medicine.

And yes that’s how it’s spelt on all the paperwork and signs in the hospital before the pedants jump on it, so that’s the spelling I’m going with

Either the actuary in question doesn’t know his/her ass from elbow

Or your husband is on one HECK of an enormous salary. As he is an nhs Doc i doubt this is the case.

The most basic online pension calculator will reveal this.

£7.5 million. I mean if your husband retired at 60 and live until 99 and didn’t do a damn thing with £7.5mil, that would equate to an annual income of £225k for 30 years

The actuary was wrong

Sorry lover until 90 I meant. So thirty year retirement.

Robbing NHS staff of their pensions won't save it and would only put people off working in it. Already NHS pensions aren't what they were and consultants are a tiny proportion of the workforce, there are a lot of very poorly paid staff.

I am private finance through and through!

your post caught my eye. The actuary is wrong. But it’s no biggie, I’ll duck out now!

I think it depends where in the country you are. Was away and had the most amazing treatment in the north west. I live in London and quite often the treatment is severely lacking - I'm lucky to have private medical insurance through work and the luxury of tipping that up when need be via my own funds. I'd still be ill now had I not insisted on private referrals.

I could have sworn I saw a thread on mumsnet late last year saying the NHS doesn't need more money it just needs more efficiency. Most people in the thread were agreeing it was not under funded.

Did I dream this??

I've not rtft but I've had nothing but positive experiences over the last 8 years. I've had a few complications with various health conditions and I really don't have any complaints.

I live in Germany and the system here works very well. Basically everyone has insurance but you have the option of using a private or state insurer. Depending on your income the state insurer is either free or you pay a bit. So those who need completely free
cradle to grave healthcare get it. Services are easy to access, staff are polite and helpful, it’s clean and basically I’ve never had any problems. When I compare it to my experiences with the nhs before I moved out here, it’s like night and day. I disagree with posters saying that the uk can’t afford it, plenty of countries in Europe manage just fine. I also disagree with posters saying that people should do more to look after themselves. It’s a nice idea but just not that simple.

My father had a (small) heart attack and sat in AE for a few hours, only to be sent home with paracetamol by a Jr Dr. I went to visit him a few days later, unaware he wasn’t feeling well, and he was literally grey in the face.

He was hospitalised for 2 weeks and had a few stents put in.

Haribo, in relative terms consultants' pensions are peanuts, a drop in the ocean of NHS expenditure. We need billions more funding than we're getting now. A transfer of the aid budget would be a good start.

I don't know why so many people assume "privatisation" of the NHS means the consumer (ie you and I) will be paying for it at source, sort of PAYG.

Many services are already privatised, in that the NHS commissions a private provider to deliver a service they can't, or to reduce waiting lists.

For example my DP works for a private provider delivering a health intervention (usually surgical) to NHS and private (ie PAYG) patients. They both get the same service, they both see the same consultants and generally get seen in a similar time frame.

It costs the NHS less than if the patient was referred to the local hospital; waiting times are shorter so no fines for breaching, patients can be seen more locally rather than travelling to a regional hospital, follow up is local with the same team that operated. The private provider can deliver the service at a potential lower cost as it is streamlined and efficient and can source staff and equipment without having to use NHS procurement and jump through NHS hoops.

Fixing the NHS isn't as simple as chucking more money at it, it needs complete reform. It needs depoliticising, better management, reduced waste, better funding and organisation in social care and a change in public thinking in many, many ways.

Roses, if you ask anyone who works in the NHS if it needs more money not one would say no. Trust the people who work at the coalface, not a bunch of random MNers.

Sidge, how can it possibly cost less when the provider has to make a profit? You've been sold a pup.

The private provider can deliver the service at a potential lower cost as it is streamlined

Or, if the private provider is Virgincare, they can cut costs and streamline the whole thing by discharging patients!

Even factoring in profit the company can deliver at a lower cost per patient; lower overheads, no fines for breaching, no PFI payments, no waste and much greater efficiency.

I’m not a business manager, I just work in the NHS but I believe what my DP tells me. And he knows as he left the NHS to do this!

Perhaps there are instances where a private company COULD operate a service at a lower price than the NHS... but companies exist to make profits and pay dividends to shareholders, so if there are ways they can increase profits and cut patient care and get away with it, many will do that.

We see what happens in America, all the time. Profit and healthcare decisions should never be considered alongside each other. It’s a disaster waiting to happen.

The answer surely is to streamline the NHS, not outsource services to private companies that have to make a profit.

Of course it can cost less! The profits could be a tiny percentage of the massive waste in the NHS currently

I think some sort of health insurance scheme has to be part of the solution. I just wish someone had the guts to go in there and make major reforms. I recently had to deal with a ridiculous waiting list for an urgent issue in a young baby, paid for a private consultation and the consultant was horrified that the issue had been missed when baby was born, and that we would have to wait so long to get back into the NHS system (if they'd started the process of a diagnosis and treatment when baby was born we would have skipped the 4 month wait to get back into the system). We felt forced into the private system as everyone told us how urgent it was, although on a personal level I am glad we had that option to pay to get something done quickly, and that we could afford it. I do think the NHS is in real crisis, it's only when unfortunately it affects you personally that you really see the extent of it.

I would happily pay more taxes purely for the NHS. We can't lose it - it's amazing service

Can you give us some examples of the massive waste, Raybon? Apart from PFI because that's costing us a fortune to generate profits for private companies.