Funded childcare hours and ignoring a demand for payment.

[QueenofmyPrinces]

I’m a “Play by the rules” type of woman which is why this is bothering me so much....

I have a son who is almost 4 and last September he started at a pre-school with the 30 funded hours.

All was well until at the start of February the pre-school contacted me to say their computer system was showing that DS was no longer eligible for funding.

My DH contacted HMRC (as the application was in his name) and they told him that DS was eligible and so we relayed this back to pre-school.

A few days later pre-school contacted me to say their system still said he wasn’t eligible so could we ring HMRC again, which DH did who again told him that there was no problem with DS having the funding so we relayed this to pre-school again.

A few days later it happened again, DH spoke to HMRC again and then he told pre-school to contact HMRC themselves to sort it out as they were consistently saying there was no problem with DS’s eligibility code or funding.

The pre-school didn’t phone HMRC though and just continued to contact me saying the same thing about their system and then said they hadn’t received any money/funding for DS for 6 weeks and I said I did not know what the answer was then because DH was being told by HMRC everything was fine. I reiterated again that they really needed to speak to HMRC themselves because there was no more that me or DH could do.

Whilst all this had been going on we had decided to move DS to a childminder (not related to this issue) and I asked her if she’d had any problems registering DS into her care regarding the funding and she said it had all been fine, she’d spoken to HMRC and they had confirmed DS’s eligibility and had settled dates for when she would receive her payments. I told the pre-school that his new childminder hadn’t come across any problems regarding DS’s funding so obviously the fault lay with their system.

We then didn’t hear anything for a few weeks so we assumed they had spoken to HMRC themselves and the problem had been resolved.

However, last week we received a bill from the pre-school for almost £700 which they say is to cover the care they’d provided to DS during the period from when their system had said he wasn’t eligible up until the date he left their setting.

My DH was fuming and basically said they can f**k off if they think they’re getting a penny out of us!! He shut the letter away in a drawer and said there’s no way we’re paying it as DS has always been eligible and if they had cared about the issue they should have bloody rang the HMRC themselves!!

DH has completely moved on from this whereas I’m slightly fretting and feel we should be doing something, not just ignoring it.

AIBU to think we should contact them and try and resolve the matter? DH said we shouldn’t bother as we’ve been trying to sort the funding issues with them for weeks and it’s been like banging our heads against a brick wall.

Although I private nursery is more likely to take you to court for the money I guess.. so you really have to sort it either way.

I had no idea about confirmations being sent to the Gateway Account, that’s really helpful and I shall get DH to look into it.

Good to see a man responsible for the mental load for once!

What grown ups do when a service tells them they are having issues with a funding source for a service their child is actually using is sort it out. A simple way of doing this would have been to pass the code and confirmation email onto the service each time they raise an issue.

We have though. The pre-school have our code and we told them each time that the HMRC said to my DH there were no problems with his finding. We phoned HMRC three times at the pre-schools request.

Maybe they think we are lying and that we didn’t ring the HMRC at all, I don’t know. I just struggle to understand why they didn’t ring HMRC themselves when they knew
DH was having no luck and instead they have just gone straight to billing us for it.

I will email HMRC myself and explain what’s is happening and copy in the pre-school.

BTW - I don’t think the pre-school are lying at all and I know it must be a HMRC issue. I’m just disappointed they haven’t tried to resolve it when they knew DH and I could do no more than what they’d asked of us.

It isn’t a private pre-school, it’s just one that is attached to an Infants school.

I wouldn’t email. I’d call HMRC again and tell them you’ve had a bill from the nursery. Maybe they’ll troubleshoot what issues the nursery could have had with their system, as they were only looking at it from your side previously.

I wouldn't ignore it, they genuinely think you owe them so it worth engaging now.

You've put it all down in your OP. Relay back to them (again!) the events - on x date DH rang HMRC and they confirmed no problem. On x date ditto. If you have the 3 monthly confirmation emails, perfect.

Change the narrative though. Stop saying "there is nothing more we can do", they'll just think "yes there is, you can pay us £700!". Instead, start saying "we have evidence that DS was eligible for funding. Here is the evidence, direct from source, proving that we don't owe you the money. If your system is preventing you from getting the money owed to you by HMRC, take that up with the system provider."

But you could have done more. You could have got HMRC to email you confirmation rather than taking a verbal commitment as being enough. Then you could have passed that email to the nursery.
You're expecting the nursery to chase HMRC because your DH didn't chase HMRC for written confirmation.
Look, HMRC's systems are notoriously temperamental but you can't just ignore the problem.

I think I’m leaning towards emails because it leaves a paper trail like a previous poster suggested was important to get.

I’m going to email the pre-school today to explain DH and I will be contacting HMRC to resolve this further as we are not prepared to pay the bill when DS has always been eligible for the funded hours.

Actually thinking more, there would probably have been a clause in the paperwork you signed when DS joined, saying that you would be responsible for any fees outstanding. Definitely don't ignore, hope you get an answer from HMRC.

You cannot expect the nursery to chase the HMRC.

TBH, this is why so many nurseries no longer allow these funded kids to use the nursery, it's a stupid gimmick to get people to vote Tory.

You ignore this or pass the ball back to them and they'll just get a debt collector to come after you.

Think macaronis email is good

Ignoring this will get you nowhere, it could leave you open to a default on your credit score and bailiffs at your door!

You're expecting the nursery to chase HMRC because your DH didn't chase HMRC for written confirmation.

Well hindsight is a wonderful thing.

If we thought events would lead up to this then we would definitely have got written confirmation. If the pre-school had asked for written confirmation from HMRC then we would have gotten it but all they asked us to do was give them a call to check there was no problems with DS’s code or application.

As I said, once I told them the new childminder hadn’t had any problems regarding DS’s funding we didn’t hear back from the pre-school at all so we assumed they’d resolved it as the last communication we had was me asking they ring HMRC because me and DH couldn’t do anymore than they’d asked of us. When we had no further communication from them we assumed they’d done that so to suddenly hit us with this bill has come as a bit of a shock.

It would have been nice if we’d been pre-warned that it was going to happen so we could make further attempts to resolve it with HMRC before it got to this stage.

It matters not a jot now, you're due them £700. You either find a way to show them in writing that you are not due them this or you ignore it and they'll take you to court. You cannot expect them to chase this up for you because your H is a lazy git.

Fine. My DH is a lazy git and it’s all our fault despite us repeatedly doing what they asked of us. Thanks for clearing that up.

And to all those with helpful advice
amd suggestions I have taken it on board and will use them to do my best to resolve the problem. Thank you.

It doesn't matter! You're due the money unless you can prove otherwise. So you either deal with it, pay it or accept that debt collectors will get invovled.

Hmmm I wonder if the money just hasn't been paid? I'm still waiting for a funded child's money. All the codes were correct & I filled in the online portal etc. But still no payment. Going to have to chase the local authority who pays us. I've never had to wait 7 weeks to be paid before & it's still late.

The whole system is a joke the way it's set up. It's caused problems for parents & providers. Such a headache ☹️

I would do what others have suggested & email over everything you've done & find out who pays the funding & speak with them? Our local authority pay us so might be worth a check. I know that's what I'll be doing today too. Good luck!

Contact the childcare officer for your LA and let them know the nursery is trying to bill you.

Screenshot all the confirmations on your online account and forward that to the nursery and LA along with any emails from hmrc.

You will have been entitled to the 15 universal hours anyway so it's only 15 hours a week that the nursery can charge you for.

Charity preschools can and do chase debts. Small claims isn't that expensive.

I think you're totally in the right here. The nursery has done nothing except present you with an erroneous bill. It's not fair or just that you're having to put in all the effort to resolve it but sadly it appears you'll have to do that. I'd be massively pissed off and can completely see where your husband's coming from.

To prevent any problems with debt collectors you need to write back to them and dispute the bill

I have emailed the pre-school manager to ask for the contact details/email address of who I need to speak to directly about this issue. I imagine they have some kind of department who is better placed to deal with this than the manager is.

My husband is in Italy at the moment but I have asked him to screenshot me all the information and proof he has of the funding confirmation via his gateway account.

You're expecting the nursery to chase HMRC because your DH didn't chase HMRC for written confirmation.

You do realise that getting anything in writing out of HMRC other than automated letters is like getting blood out of a stone?

I deal with HMRC alot in my role, i know how flipping difficult they are!

The eligibility code is the confirmation anyway.