'Clothes are cheap these days, no need for second hand'

[Upsidedownandinsideout]

Just read this exact phrase on a current thread re FB selling groups but see it again and again on here.

Am no saint, I still buy things from Zara as well as preowned, and haven't darned a sock in my life. Still I worry that if even the members here, who generally work hard to do the best for our kids and worry about their futures, think nothing of buying new school trousers every growth spurt instead of taking up or down, or buy a new costume (flown from China) every year for World Book Day, or can't see the point in bothering to sell a second hand item - that's not a great sign for the future of our environment, especially when our fast fashion industry means that there increasingly isn't much value in donated clothes either.

Realistically though, AIBU to even spend time worrying about this? I feel like a (small, full-time-working and time- and money-poor) drop in a very large ocean every time I think about these things.

Seriously, if you're feeling benevolent towards 'Africa' (which is a continent, not a country) then have a jumble and send the money to an organisation that works with ethical supply chains. Nordic I've seen that zillions of times- there are also some people doing bras for Africa. I ask you. Second hand underwiring has never come top in any assessment I've worked on.

Cash, not stuff. Always.

Ps- Mitumba does employ quite a number of people in the informal economy but usually on awful, insecure terms. The people making the big money are importers who pay no tax at all in countries which already have a woefully low tax base. This, I suspect, is rather different to what most people think is happening when they leave a bin bag of clothes out. Also the poorest rural people get the worst quality, but more expensive Mitumba.

DD(11) has just come down in her Debenhams dressing gown. 50p that cost me. I have never got another bargain as good as that.

We are moving soon and will need more furniture, I am hoping to get a good deal of it from one of our local charity shops (the same one as the 50p dressing gown)

I give a lot of clothes to charity, sometimes the odd bag of toddler/baby clothes to a Romanian orphanage, but we know someone who sorts that out personally through contacts there, it's not done through a charity.

We buy bits and bobs from charity shops (dvds, books, ornaments etc) and then auction them on a Facebook group, with the proceeds going to spay and neuter programmes abroad in Romania for the dogs. Currently bidding on something someone bought for 50p, it's up to £4.50! And a paperback second-hand book has a £16 bid!

I was raised on charity shops though... Still love visiting my grandma and having a wander around them! I got a Teletubbies playset and that Twirlywoos Big Red Boat playset for less than a fiver each. Bargain!

So good to see responses and hear that I'm not the only one.
One thing I did want to share from my own effort to reuse more - Wundaweb is amazing! It is a hemming tape that you iron on so you can take trousers or skirt up without stitching, or fix one that has come down, and costs only a few £s (don't buy the cheap stuff from Amazon, it saves only pennies and doesn't last).

Also to the pp who said water is a closed system and so it doesn't matter how much is used to create an item or raise a cow... Well, sort of. But not all water is equal, and not all areas have the same water availability. Worth having a read about desertification, salinisation or this eye opening look at water pollution www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/aug/31/cleaning-the-worlds-water-we-are-now-more-polluted-than-we-have-ever-been

But let's focus on the positive, and lots of people on this thread do lots more than us already, so yes to Wundaweb, will donate used work clothes and shoes to greaterlondon.dressforsuccess.org and sneak into charity shops in the fancy side of town for good quality bargains.

And by us, I mean my family! Not lumping the rest of you in with my unsustainable bunch...

It does not matter, they are all made in developing countries. I went to the Ralph Lauren outlet shop in Bicester, labeled said made in Vietnam. I am sure the conditions are Ty he same as the Asda and Tesco factories. Oh and the Boden trousers said made in Sri Lanka. I would expect made in the UK, for their prices.

Just because the clothes are manufactured in developing countries doesn't mean they are exploiting workers. Some of the most ethical companies have factories in India, but they pay higher than the average wage and provide good working conditions. I'll post an extract from Duns Sweden website:

'FULL TRANSPARENCY | FULL DISCLOSURE
When we started this company in 2007 we had three catchwords that permeated the development; organic, unisex and unique. We are always completely transparent concerning our production and working conditions. We are very proud to show you the wonderful production units in India and it is a real pleasure to visit the staff!
DUNS Sweden is GOTS Certified (CU 855122) and makes all garments in facilities certified by GOTS and controlled by Control Union in India. We produce all garments in production facilities in India certified by GOTS and controlled by Control Union. All employees have a salary that exceeds the Living Wage for India with approximately 20%. (Read more on Living Wage) Working days are between 9 and 5. Overtime is paid and volontary. If the heat is to strong the working hours are adjusted. The unit has 20 permanent employees and 25 floating (meaning they have special knowledge and work in different units depending on if their expertice is needed).'

This is interesting. Apparently Primark and New Look have more ethical supply chains than Gap, Monsoon and Debenhams.

www.ethicalconsumer.org/buyersguides/clothing/clothesshops.aspx

So maybe hold off on lecturing children about the evils of cheap clothes when they ask for sparkly tops.

Or I guess you could always get them a cashmere jumper from Oxfam instead. So their workers can afford to buy sex in Haiti.

How can it not be a class issue when you get people waxing lyrical about how lovely second hand cashmere is compared to cheap (but essential) items made from nasty fabrics

YYY to RingFence's reply about how long cashmere lasts compared to acrylic if treated right.

Nothing is really essential except underwear.

Why would I buy something that won't last? The have vs. have not thing would come into it if I were advocating that everyone should buy cashmere brand new as it lasts longer. I am spending $5.99 on something that will last me for years. I don't buy tonnes of clothes.

The charity place where I shop prices sweaters and shirts/blouses at $4.99 or $5.99, jeans at $6.99, t-shirts at $3.99. Children's clothes are $3-4.99. All items are sold pretty much regardless of label or fibre. Books, DVDs and CDs are a dollar. Handbags are $4.99. A lot of furniture is also $4.99. Approximately 85% of every dollar I spend benefits the charity. It doesn't pretend to be a boutique. If you get there early you will have more to choose from.

I started charity shopping because I had literally no money at all after divorce, with five DCs to feed and clothe. It was nice to go into the second hand place after I got my job and choose a few items that I liked, then pay and walk out with them. I felt like a human being again after going for a few years without buying a single thing for myself.

I can now afford to be concerned about the environment. But charity shopping is not a hobby I indulge in. I am a very, very frugal self-employed woman who is painfully conscious of the fact that a retirement income went down the toilet along with my marriage.

Fish you are conflating (is that the right word?) two seperate issues re clothing.
Of course people should donate money to African (or wherever) rather than things. Thanks for pointing out Africa is a continent
Mitumba isn't built on rich westerners sending their old nighties to orphans.
The stuff is imported for sale.

It may be insecure work but I fail to see how removing a woman's only source of income is going to make her life more secure.

ringfence is correct (I live in Sweden and DUNS are a lovely brand!)

Just because it’s made abroad doesn’t mean it’s made by slaves. Garment workers are predominantly women and well run supply chains reduce poverty and give women economic footholds.

If you search retailer websites for the modern Slavery statements you can see where they stand.

I can afford to buy new, but I do love labels and am too tight to pay full price. So am an ebay shopper. Got some great bargains, and the stuff has been admired.
I do buy the odd thing from Primark, mostly long sleeved teeshirts for work. I quite like Tesco/ Sainsbury's for work, anything else is from the sales at Debenhams/ Frasers/Zara and a local shop near by work that sell fab different stuff that you dont get anywhere else.

The clothes I've bought recently are a jumper from John Smedley - locally made will last for years.
A top from Hollister from a charity shop still with tags on for a couple of quid.
A skull logo t-shirt from a boutique in town - which I will wear loads.
Superdry hoody for the gym- worn several times already.

I only bought about 20 things last year, all items that I really like and have been worn lots of times and all still in my wardrobe.

I believe in buy less but decent quality inspired by the French 5 piece wardrobe.

I avoid Primark and supermarkets, I just don't like them enough to clutter up my wardrobe and they often end up tatty looking far too soon.

I agree with what others have said there's a world of a difference between enjoying rummaging around a charity shop and having to buy 2nd hand in order to clothe your family.

Personally my clothes budget is primark/h&m but I don't enjoy shopping. I buy off eBay purely because it has lots of filters so I can find what I'm looking for quickly (eg a mid length, blue dress with a v neck and long sleeves). So by default most of my clothes are 2nd hand. I do find though that because of this I can get labels that are out f my budget for primark prices.

The charity shops in my area are crap though so I couldn't rely on them for my clothing or I'd look like a 1980s C&A advert.

I have to say Im glad to see the debate on here that buying more expensive brands does not necessarily mean that the person making the clothes is any better paid or treated. It more likely means that the shop has higer margins or uses slighly better material.

Our school thrift shop (private) is very well used ,however due to limited opening hours is difficult for many folk to get to, so a FB page has recently been set up. I could afford to buy new, but particularly for the annual dress up day in junior school , it seems like such a waste. The thrift shop has great bargains if I can get there like used ski gear for pounds - however I suppose if I can afford to take/ send my DC on a school ski trip it is more about prioritisation to choose to buy second hand rather than economic need.

I spent a lot of my childhood in charity shop clothes they were just awful however my dp didn’t have a lot at the time but I was ashamed, I longed for something I picked out that was new. I got an evening job when I was 15 waitressing and it was amazing feeling been able to go out and choose an outfit I liked rather than someone else’s clothes.

As a result I never dress myself or dc in charity shop clothes. I buy in the sales and rarely pay full price. There clothes last ages aswell. I do donate them when they are finished.

I can't afford fairtrade clothing, so buying from charity shops/carboots when I can is how I try not to contribute to sweatshops too much. I still buy kids shoes, pants socks and bras new - and sometimes I can't get the boys what they need in their size.

Also, IME secondhand M&S clothes seem to outlast new Dorothy Perkins/New Look.

I generally buy new for my son. He's three and is my only child and we are not having any more. I like choosing clothes for him that are bright and colourful and not worn out with washing/wear. Some are pricey e.g. Boden/Jo Jo/Frugi but I get them on sale or when there is an offer on. For nursery I buy less expensive stuff as it tends to get trashed. And I sell clothes on after he;s finished in them, either at the NCT sale (from which they take a cut) or on Facebook and the money goes either towards more new clothes for him or into his savings account.

We have a charity shop that sells a lot of school uniform around summer time. I do get the logo sweatshirts and polo tops there. The quality is pretty crappy so even new they bobble within a couple of washes. So may as well pay 75p as opposed to £10.99

Ring, I think all brands even the cheap ones, are not becoming more aware and ethical, not just the expensive ones.

www.theguardian.com/fashion/2013/may/17/ethical-shopping-high-street-fashion

Plus as a pp said you can get stuff from Primark etc cheaper than second hand

Well possibly, but then ..... there's a reason for that

@stevie indeed

I have seen primarily clothes bobble after one wash, whereas baby Gap go through 3 children and still be soft and bobble free.