If i pay childcare until 6.30pm, surely that means i can collect my child any time up until 6.30pm?

[KettleAlwaysBoiling]

Just had a bit of a ticking off from the manager of my daughter's after school care! Feeling a bit confused and embarrassed.

I've recently switched before/after school childcare companies as I needed somewhere open until 6.30pm. I live quite rurally and this place advertises itself as being the only childcare in X open past 6pm.

I usually collect DD around 6pm but a few times over the past few weeks it has been 6.25pm.

She's a big girl near the end of primary school so there is no need for any 'catch up' such as you might expect with babies or young children. So i don't need to allow any time for this. There's no signing out or anything like that. It's simply - open the door, take coat/bag from the hook, shout cheerio. Pick up time takes no longer than two minutes maximum.

Tonight I collected DD at 6pm and the manager took me aside to discuss my collection times. She said she wanted to remind me that her staff finish at 6.30pm as that is all they are paid until. She said she has never had to consider introducing a 'late' fee before but might have to unless I'm more punctual. I double checked that their clock is the same time as my watch/phone clock. I told her that me and DD were always out the door by 6.30pm. She said that her staff report i didn't actually leave until 6.29pm the other night, and they ended up having to stay until 6.45pm to do all the last minute jobs they couldn't do while DD was there.

I said that I can't guarantee what time I'll get there each evening but can promise it will always be before 6.30pm. I reminded her that this is the reason i've put DD specifically into this childcare place - because i need care past 6pm.

The conversation ended rather awkwardly and she just said that all parents will be getting a letter next week about lateness/late fees.

Surely this is more of a managerial issue than a parent one? I pay for childcare up until 6.30pm. But staff are sometimes having to stay until 6.45pm to do the jobs needing done after all children have left. She needs to extend their hours i would think.

Any ideas what I can do, going forwards? I'm obviously going to be contesting any late fees added on to my bill since i'm always out of there by 6.30pm. I might also suggest they do introduce a sign out book so it's documented what time i've collected DD.

I really need this place to work out as i absolutely do need childcare past 6pm some nights. Also, DD seems to really love it!

snewsname - if you are working at minimum wage and your employer requires you to stay longer than your hours without paying you for that time then they are breaking the law as it brings your wage below the minimum. The same would apply to the childcare if they were paying staff minimum wage.

I am a registered childminder and you should have been given a copy of the contract. Also you have paid until 6.30 and so you have until that time to pick up.

Yes of course you should have a copy of the contract. This doesn't sound like a professional set up if they haven't given it to you - have you actually signed it.
Definitely ask for a copy of the contract when emailing them about this, you can say in a jolly tone that you are sure the contract clarifies all this and that anyone who pays until 6.30 is fully entitled to pick up until then. You can also say you're sure the staff have contracts which clarify their hours and when they are paid until.

They are unprofessional, but you've been a bit daft if you haven't seen or signed a contract or got a copy of one.

I picked up my friends son at his creche at 5.30pm for nearly half a year (they used to open until 6.00 but he was the only one there and they couldn't justify opening the extra half hour for just one child.) and they always had the place clean (floors washed etc) when I was picking him up. They'd just clean around him and he was three! So if they can do that with a three year old around they can do it with an older child around!

The nursery is doing things on the cheap, they probably stop paying their employees at 6.30 exactly, this happened where our dd used to go. I got a ticking off for arriving at 3.29 for a 3.30 pick up. I told the manager I pay until 3.30 on a wednesday and that is that- she didn't try it again.

Bad management I'm afraid and bad time management. They sound very tight. Surely by 6.30pm, there aren't many children left and while one adult supervises the remaining children, the other adult there could do whatever paperwork/duties necessary. E.g. If I was on a phonecall at work and it continued past the time I usually finished, at say 5pm, I wouldn't slam down the phone five minutes early saying I've got to switch off my pc now and fetch my coat so I wil be out the door at exactly 5pm

Obviously the management in the after school facility you are using are refusing to pay the childcare workers past 6.30pm which is why they have adopted this immature attitude (probably are poorly paid to begin with). Its up to management to either say final pick up time is at 6.15pm or else have a word with their employees and arrange to pay them until 6.45pm.

YANBU

I think that's very cheeky of them.
Your dd is school aged so wouldn't care if adults were clearing up while she played on her own for a bit. If she needed the direct attention of an adult then 1 adult could supervise her while the others cleared up. There are lots of things that she could do like read a book which would take seconds to clear up after she left.

The staff not being paid after 6:30 is not your fault and while you need to watch the 6:29 pick up, there's nothing wrong if you pick her up at 6:15 every day.

I'm just amazed that your don't have a signing-out book.

How do they know who's in and who's gone? In the event of a fire drill, how do they know?

Silent That stuck out to me as well Surely the childcare workers need to physically see the person picking up the child if only to sign them out. Popping a head around the door doesn't sound very secure or safe. What to do in the event of an ongoing custody case etc

CF!
Her, not you!!!
Email and clarify the times. The latest I would expect you is 6.29pm and I would expect you out the door by 6.30pm. She’s is way out of line!!!

in my job we close at 11....but work til 11.15.....we are not paid the 15 minutes as that is given to us as breaks earlier in the shift.....but thats for a big company....if they are open until 6.30, the staff hometime should be 6.45......you need time to close imo

This makes my blood boil OP! I feel your pain. I had a similar experience with my 2 year old’s nursery and it left me stressed every evening about leaving the office and getting there well before the actual closing time. I can understand that 2 year olds need quite a bit more watching and harder to clear up around them, but a 9-10year old? Surely they can do all their ‘jobs’ while the last few kids are there. I have a problem with any childcare setting, shop, office etc thank advertises itself as being open until a certain time and then thinks that means you can’t be in the building until that time. I suggest an email/meeting request to the manager to discuss it and agree what your needs are and that there are times when you will need to use their childcare until 6.30. I’ve had to come to terms with the fact that I’m always the last parent to collect my daughter and have to deal with the tired/grumpy faces of staff who want to go home and are expecting to bunk off as soon as the last child leaves the building. I am usually being closely followed out the door by all of them... good luck.

Just because a parent doesn't sign a child out it doesn't mean that staff don't mark the child out when they are picked up.

"How did they explain that they’re open till 6pm but without any kids to care for? A “closing time” of 6pm isn’t advertised for staff!"

I agree it's cheeky to do that and probably false advertising to some extent. However I can't really go elsewhere and they don't HAVE to stay opened till 6pm...they should just say it's till 545... I think in practice they are not too bothered and will not complain if people come between 545 and 6pm on odd occasions so I put up with it :) the other school in my town has only after school club till 530 so...

I work at a nursery There's usually only 2/3 kids at the and of the day, sometimes only 1. Finishing off jobs can be done by one staff member while the other supervises. No law that says 2 adults always have to be in the room with the kids at all times- just within hearing/calling distance.
The last child's shoes and coat can be on ready at 6.27pm, say bye to the last parent at 6.30, no extra conversation, put our coats on, switch off lights, lock the front door and leave and we are all in the car park together.

Parents know if they are the last one. If they come a bit early it's a luxury for the staff. If they pick after their time, they are charged a full extra hour. They don't repeat that very often!! You are not late, you are on time. It's their problem if the staff can't get their act together and have to sort things out for another 15 minutes. You don't pay till 6.15, you pay for childcare till 6.30. Remind the manager of that!!

When I used a nursery, I was pretty much always the parent running in the door at 5:58! I didn't once get asked to turn up earlier or told to pay extra. In the last 15 minutes or so, the remaining children would be sat in the reception area where there were books with one staff member. Another staff member would be clearing up, so that once I picked up, the staff could leave.

Similar now with after school club, if I'm one of the last, DD is sat watching tv with her coat on and bag by the door.

I haven't read all the posts, but as a childcare professional, Ofsted would take a dim view of children not being signed in and out.

I know colleagues who have been pulled up on the necessity to be absolutely precise. The nursery where I collect from have a digital clock next to the register.

Oh I'd be the parent that turns up at 6.15 pm get everything ready (bags/child/stuff) then faff around until 6.29 pm just because

It's worrying that you say there's no formal signing out of DD. That is a Safeguarding issue in Ofsteads eyes.
Make sure you get signed out and see for yourself what time staff are putting.
Even if children are collected dead on 6.30 staff will have to stay longer than that. That should not be an issue and never has been for any of my child's nurseries or childminder, or at any of the settings I have worked in. Sounds like really poor management, and in that case I would want to check all aspects of the provision.

To add to my previous comments, a register of attendance is a legal document and must be kept accurately, as well as the need to know who is collecting a child. Hope this helps you

I don't understand what the staff are doing once the other childen leave (or are down to only the last few). We were usually the last parents to pick up from our pre-school childcare and my ds would be sitting having a story read to him while the other staff member finished tidying up. They would usually lock up and leave within minutes of us getting out the door.

Does everyone pay a set rate, however long they are there, or are you charged by the hour? Either way, her attitude makes no sense as she’s paying the staff anyway, they’re just not managing their time well, but if everyone is paying a set fee that gives them until 6.30, it’s even more cheeky.

You definitely need to get this clarified in writing, there’s too much left to interpretation with verbal communication. Be polite but clear that you want written clarification and give them a reasonable time period to provide it. Anything that is said to you verbally about it, follow it up with an email, saying thank you for talking to me today and stating what was said/agreed. It’s easy for her to stand and say anything she likes but evidence on paper tends to focus the mind!

I know of a similar service (not for children) where clients were expected to be picked up by 3pm and they were on the phone by 3.15 if they weren’t. Plus, they were stood with their coats on, staff as well by 3.05. Turned out they were contracted to provide the service until 4pm (manager let it slip one day!) but they only paid staff until 3.30 and they’d got used to going by 3pm even then. What was actually happening was, a service contracted (and partly subsidised with public funds) until 4pm, was actually done and dusted by 2.30, activity wise, as they spent that time tidying up and getting coats etc. Once it got out, a few service providers started collecting at 4pm and they were well within their rights to do so. Paying the staff is the managers responsibility, not the clients!

YANBU! This place is badly run by a nutter! Take photo of their sign.

She should have signed contract - copy for you and her - about the hours your DD is with them.

She should have a sign in/out book ESSENTIAL in case of fire.

Report her to Soc Services or threaten to.

If they advertise child care to 6.30pm then obviously she has to pay her staff to stay another 15 mins to clear up.

Even without signed contract by taking money from you to pay up to 6.30 then this constitutes a legal contract. Even when you get on a bus there is a legal contract agreed that the driver will transport you! So you have all the balls in your court and she is talking bollocks.

She sounds so nasty, I'd try and find someone else to have your DD - I know it's hard! I don't like the sound of this place. I do sympathise how difficult to find somewhere but keep looking for a better place. Good luck!

PS let her know you are telling everyone how unreasonable she has been, print out our replies!

My nursery is open 7-7. Staff on early shift start at 6.45am and those on late shift finish at 7.15. This allows staff to get ready or tidy up with out children. Also allows for parents to be unavoidably late. Late fees start after 7.15pm.