To be irritated by the rules around adult/ child library books?

[hophap]

In our library any book not expressly a children’s book cannot be borrowed by a child.

However any art book with actual artists/ pictures in is adult. Local history books are adult. Music books. Maps. Basically anything not bought for cartoon/ curriculum support and whoever is buying certainly aims at the younger end of the child readers.

Is it really unbelievable an under 18 wants to read some of the adult books? Totally fine if I need to give permission/ they charge adult fines (though as most the books are generally around the same price...).

My daughter has been barred from getting a book on an artist she’s studying, I then went to say I’d give permission. Nope. The book is not dissimilar to what you’d find in most school libraries. Being out with a card or sufficient ID I could t get it either.

What is the logic behind adult/ children books being divided and able: older children being confined to kids books? Schools don’t worry if a book is appropriate by not a kids book. The library rules actually mean that yr 6 can’t get books out the library they read at school (able group- classics). By GCSE many books in the kids study area are totally babyish. I understand maybe some books require adult guidance, but surely this is solved with parental permission. I remember as a child having a green stamp on my ticket to show that my parents allowed me to borrow any book.

pages from a Robert Mapplethorpe book they'd got out of a university library.

First RM picture I saw was in "Time Out" in 1983 (aged 16) of a piece called "Bob Love".

The Time Out in question was in the 6th form library ....

I work in a library.

Children's books are often returned very late. They have little awareness of dates. Older children - young teens - maybe more aware of return dates, but not terribly aware that the rules apply to them. Parents are often so overwhelmed by other parenting tasks that returning the books of the young people they are responsible for comes pretty low down the list. So if children start being able to borrow adult fiction, the problem of books being returned very very late - and being unavailable to other borrowers - becomes greater.

So if children start being able to borrow adult fiction, the problem of books being returned very very late - and being unavailable to other borrowers - becomes greater.

So instead, you introduce policies which make the library completely useless for teenagers by restricting them to books aimed at young children, and then complain when it ten years' time you have no borrowers under fifty and the council can close you down as irrelevant without much in the way of protest. Sounds like a scheme.

Is the borrowing of adult books by teenagers really a problem at the scale you imply? Why wasn't that a problem a generation ago, when there were no such restrictions? You've got falling numbers of adult borrowers and massively falling numbers of younger borrowers, but now adults can't get hold of books because the children of got them all out?

Send the library a message on social media asking why, in this day of dwindling library usage, they are making it difficult for people to access books.

No wonder libraries are closing if they have stupid rules like this! A child could walk into a book shop and buy books that are non-child specific. I get ID'd buying anything age restricted and I've never been ID'd buying a book!

Send the library a message on social media asking why, in this day of dwindling library usage, they are making it difficult for people to access books.

Our local library is open one day a week, 9-1 and 2-5 .

Our library is basically turning into a hub for council services, benefits advice etc with more and more books going

I use the library a lot with the kids, a few times a week for quite a while. I can’t think of seeing anyone being between around 11-65 borrowing in there. The rows of adults books are at any time empty of people, they probably sit for years then are ultimately binned after a few reads in many cases.

My daughter's card doesn't allow borrowing adult books - I just assumed it was because kids don't get fined and so it would be open to abuse. She's not old enough to want anything more than picture books yet but might investigate what happens in this situation...

Our local library is open one day a week, 9-1 and 2-5

No wonder libraries are closing - they've only got themselves to blame if they are making it difficult for people to use! They might as well not open at all like that.

I can remember, as a child, thinking it bizarre that the library closed one afternoon a week. I was like "but how do people get their books?"

No wonder libraries are closing - they've only got themselves to blame if they are making it difficult for people to use! They might as well not open at all like that.

I can guarantee in most cases that's not the choice of the staff (if there are any). Some of ours let you in without staff to actually better enable borrowing when it suits.

Dalek can you see that it's the council who governs how much a library has for staffing, and that determines how often it can be open?

The problem is people just don't read as much - or if they do (guilty ) it's eBooks and online.

It is heartbreaking because - as usual - it's the more vulnerable in society that will get the shitty end of the stick . People for whom books are a luxury.

Our library is a beautiful Victorian Reading Room - built in an age when philanthropy was considered a moral duty. By sad contract, the disabled lift into it was fair game for vandals, so that's DWs potential enjoyment gone .

Before public libraries, we had private libraries (when books were luxuries even for the well heeled). I recall an English teacher mentioning that the 3 biggest were a certain W.H Smith, John Menzies, and F.W. Woolworth.

Policing what your child reads (if necessary which I’m not convinced about) is the job of the parents, not the library.

We should be encouraging enthusiastic young readers not putting roadblocks in their way.

Dalek library managers don’t want to make it hard for people to access their libraries. They can only work within the budgets given to them, and in these times of austerity those budgets have been slashed.

Most libraries have a teenage section. I think that in the local authority I work the software allows those in the 11-18 age group to borrow adult titles. (Usually it's classic fiction which is on the GCSE/A-Level syllabus that teenagers want.) However, a number or parents do have anxieties about children at the lower end of this bracket borrowing commercial adult fiction that might concern drug taking, casual sex etc.

One problem is that with increased use of self-issue machines it isn't possible for automated systems any kind of conversation about the content of the books that people borrow. Machines can't use discretion. So for that reason the software is likely to set up quite rigid rules - though it may be possible for staff to override some of them.

A big problem with more self-issue machines and having fewer staff is it is a great deal easier for people to walk off with books. Budgets for buying new books have also been cut or frozen. So, by and large, it does make sense to issue to mostly issue adult books on adult tickets, as then they are more likely to be returned and back in circulation.

One problem is that with increased use of self-issue machines it isn't possible for automated systems any kind of conversation about the content of the books that people borrow.

Not really sure that's a "problem". I know for a fact that my reading habits weren't policed by my local library staff when I was a child (and I lived in the library). So why is it now a thing ? And even so, it seems to ignore the fact that a child can go into any bookshop in the country, and pick almost any book off the shelves with no oversight. Naked Lunch ? Last Exit to Brooklyn ? A Clockwork Orange ?

I live in an area where there are a high proportion of parents with strong religious views. They want their children to be well-educated and to use the library. The children themselves value being in the library as a place where they have a degree of freedom to socialise with their friends. But their parents are also aware that there is a very wide range of material there, and that some of the adult books could be seen as promoting harmful behaviour. They value the fact that library staff know and care for the young people - and might want to check that their parents were happy about them reading some of this more adult material.

They value the fact that library staff know and care for the young people - and might want to check that their parents were happy about them reading some of this more adult material.

A doctor who said "I think it's important that young girls don't become sexually active, so I always make sure I involve 15 year olds' parents in their health choices" would be struck off, and properly so.

Librarian here (small town, council run library). Please be aware that generally speaking, those behind the counter have no say in the policies that have been put in place by those in charge, and we often vehemently disagree with them! In my authority, there is no restriction on what can be borrowed on a child’s card, and I agreed that this is right, but this does bring its own issues of adults using their children’s cards to avoid certain fines and fees.

In response to those commenting on libraries becoming council hubs, this is a nationwide strategy as councils are desperate to save money by pooling services. Libraries are in an extremely fragile position at the moment, and councils are grasping at any opportunity to cut costs. I suspect most librarians would also prefer to spend their time working with books, but we are often now untrained citizens advice cum social workers. Don’t be too hard on us!

Incidentally, there should be no bar on the sort of books children can read for the Summer Reading Scheme - even audio books and graphic novels are fine.

Dalek Our library, like many others around the country has been defunded. That is the County Council no longer funds it. In our case, our Parish Council steeped into the breach and, with a team of volunteer trustees, has taken over the funding and running of the library. The only downside is the substantial increase to the Parish Precept part of our Council Tax - the money has to come from somewhere. It is not the fault of libraries they are closing. It is the fault of local councils who no longer fund them properly, and ultimately the fault of the government for axing the central government grant, leaving local council with massive holes in their budgets.

So what would you do if you were a librarian in an area where the majority of the population were observant Muslims and the library was one of the few wider community places accessed by families.

Books are classified according to age groups and tickets (also fines on late borrowing) are also classified according to age group.

If a 13 or 14 year old girl wanted to get out an erotic novel aimed at adults, I would only permit them to borrow it with the approval of my line manager. That's how it would work at most libraries, I think. (If parents are unhappy with that sort of restriction, they can borrow the erotic novel themselves and pass it to their children.)

A big problem with more self-issue machines and having fewer staff is it is a great deal easier for people to walk off with books.

You know most libraries use an RFID security system for their stock, right?

@hophap

Show them this article: theconversation.com/teenagers-arent-reading-enough-tough-books-heres-why-that-matters-91932

The community libraries in my city don't have RFID security, so there's nothing to stop people walking out with stock. It's not easy to see if they've used the self-issue machines either - because of heavy staff cuts.

I was thinking about this some more.

In the local authority where I work, until the young person reaches 17 and can apply for a library card in their own right a parent or adult carer acts as a guarantor. It is up to them to ensure that books are returned (in good condition) and to pay for replacements for lost books. The deal is with the parent effectively. This means it is a bit problematic if the child knows a parent wouldn't approve of what they are borrowing and therefore conceals the book (and perhaps forgets to return it.)

There's also the fact that some community libraries are in a very real sense communities. The library staff are treated like family friends or relatives. They'll have known teenage borrowers since they were little kids. Or the young people regard the staff as being like favourite teachers - the kind who are friendly, but also prepared to be strict when rules are being broken. So teenagers who try to borrow a book that is basically very much an adult novel - want and expect - staff to say, 'Does your Mum know you're getting that out? Is she in the library? Okay in that case, I'll check with her.' (NB if the teenager knows that Mum would not be okay with the book, she'll probably get her adult big (married?) sister to borrow the book for her.