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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think my step-sis should pay the money back?

121 replies

Tainbri · 18/02/2018 10:31

My Step sister borrowed a large sum of money from my step mum (her mother) and my dad which she and her DH used as a deposit for their property. The property as far as I know is in their joint names. There was no formal loan agreement put in place because it was "family" but she has (up until her mum died) been paying interest on the money. Anyway her mum died last year and now my dad wants the money paid back. Step sis won't even talk about it and says it was her mum's money so now it's hers. Obviously morally I think she should pay it back, but legally do you think my dad has a case given there's no written agreement? He doesn't want to waste more money on solicitors if he doesn't stand a chance.

OP posts:
Amatree · 18/02/2018 12:17

OP you haven't answered people asking who's money it was originally? Was it from her mum eg sale of an asset or was it more your dads money originally? If it's the former then I think you're totally in the wrong to try and get it back, it should be her inheritance. If it's the latter I can understand a bit more. I just can't believe how many people especially those with complex families are silly enough not to leave a will!

TheJoyOfSox · 18/02/2018 12:25

Sorry if this is not the answer you are looking for but my immediate reaction was

Give the girl a break, her mum just died.

Winebottle · 18/02/2018 12:34

Legally and morally, debts should be repaid.

AnnieAnoniMouse · 18/02/2018 12:35

DeathStar she’s not choosing to be in it, she’s choosing to help her elderly frail Dad. What would you do, tell him to sort it himself? 🙄

Tainbri How long were your Dad & SM together? How much money is it?

Didiusfalco · 18/02/2018 12:42

What sort of figure are we talking? I do think this is relevant as to how much you might want to chase it. If it was £3k to top up a deposit that’s not going to make a dent in any care fees, if it was £50k that might be harder to let go.

Quaza · 18/02/2018 12:48

How on earth is this 'not the OP's business'. It's her Dad that's involved and he is old, frail and likely to need his money back. 😳

Posters who are suggesting that it's better for the step sister to keep the money as the Council will step in to pick up the tab for any care home expenses are suggesting something that is morally and legally wrong. (Obviously some exceptions etc)
If you have money to pay for you own care then you are meant to pay if it yourself. You aren't allowed to give it away.

DeathStare · 18/02/2018 12:48

DeathStar she’s not choosing to be in it, she’s choosing to help her elderly frail Dad. What would you do, tell him to sort it himself?

I'd tell him that I didn't have a clue about the legalities (which is true) and that he needs to either write it off or see a solicitor (which is also true). TBH if she does anything else she is doing him a disservice.

Original poster
Tainbri · 18/02/2018 12:49

I wish it was that easy DeathStare he's my dad, and I'm all he's got, so I am involved. Step Sis has gone NC of her choosing (when her mum died) They were together for about 20 years, so don't think it's that easy to divide who's was who's or who contributed more. They got together when they were in their 50s so me and step sister never lived with them as we were already adults. It's a large sum, £20k according to Dad, but I am in the process of going through everything this weekend so trying to find exact date of the money going out. Dad being a bit vague about the whole thing. He's in a bit of a state about everything and at first he didn't want to tell me. I didn't actually know until recently that step sis had been lent the money.

OP posts:
DeathStare · 18/02/2018 12:52

How on earth is this 'not the OP's business'. It's her Dad that's involved and he is old, frail and likely to need his money back

And he needs legal advice - not some ill-informed moral opinion on what "should" happen or the opinions of a bunch of strangers on the internet. And so does her step-sister.

There is nobody (from what she's said so far) being malicious here. There are two people who both believe they are entitled to the money and who both believe that the deceased intended them to have it.

There is absolutely nothing that the OP can do to rectify that.

diddl · 18/02/2018 12:52

Wasn't the money also lent by Op's dad-who now wants it back?

It's not up to Op to just let the step sister have the money as it wasn't her money?

RedHelenB · 18/02/2018 12:53

I'd let sleeping dogs lie. Your dad can have 16 000 of savings set aside for you to inherit as a minimum and ss got 20 000. So roughly equal.

DeathStare · 18/02/2018 12:54

And what then OP? What when you've found the date it went out? I'm not meaning this to be harsh but there's nothing you can do here except give your dad emotional support. He needs to see a lawyer, or write the money off

NewYearNewMe18 · 18/02/2018 12:59

Legally and morally, debts should be repaid.

Morally, maybe
Legally, not always.

The girl borrowed from her mother. He mothers death, in the absence of any written instruction to the contrary, discharges that obligation.

Original poster
Tainbri · 18/02/2018 12:59

I know, im just looking for the facts I guess. I think it might be worth a conversation with a lawyer, but obviously nobody wants the stress or the expense. What I have learnt from this thread is it's not cut and dried!! Thanks so much everyone.

OP posts:
Elendon · 18/02/2018 13:07

A friend of mine's daughter got a gift of a deposit from a relative. It had to be gifted and not loaned otherwise the mortgage would have been compromised.

Elendon · 18/02/2018 13:08

Personally, I would not involve legal proceedings. You may end up with less than you bargained for.

Quaza · 18/02/2018 13:08

And he needs legal advice - not some ill-informed moral opinion on what "should" happen or the opinions of a bunch of strangers on the internet. And so does her step-sister.

No need to be so patronising. I agree that he needs legal advice. My comments about morals were aimed at the posters saying that it's ok for the step sister to keep the money because the council will pick up the bill.

StaplesCorner · 18/02/2018 13:09

Am I right in thinking that your Dad and your step mother had a property that one of them or both of them owned? Is this why the step sister thinks she should have money from the estate, even if her mother died without a will? How many siblings/step siblings etc are there and who actually owned the house your dad is living in now?

MissDuke · 18/02/2018 13:15

This is so complicated!!! Why shouldn't step sister get an inheritance from her mum? Of course she should. If she pays it all back now, you say it will disappear into his care cost and lets face it - it really won't take long for it to disappear. He will still receive the car that he needs either way. The wording of your post makes it sound like he wants it all back straight away, not just the small payments she has been making? What if she cannot afford this? At the end of the day, she was loaned this money with, by the sounds of it, no clear plan as to how it will be paid back. This was a crazy thing to do. I just cannot see how he can backtrack and demand it all now. Of course he can request the previously agreed payments continue but it is a bit insensitive.

DeathStare · 18/02/2018 13:16

Quaza... how is any of that patronising??? It's just (unfortunately) true. Even is everyone on Mumsnet had agreed that the step-sister should pay the money back, how does that help the OP's dad? It's not like the step-sister is going to say "OK then I'll give up £20K (that I might have to see my home to come up with) that I believe my mum intended me to have and that I think I'm legally entitled to, because mumsnet thinks I should"

There is nothing anyone on here can do to resolve this. There is nothing the OP can do to resolve this. Her dad either needs to start a legal battle to try to get the money he believes he's entitled to or he needs to write it off. There are no other options. How is that patronising?

Branleuse · 18/02/2018 13:19

Shes just lost her fucking mum. Dont be cunts about it.

diddl · 18/02/2018 13:22

I think I have misread.

I thought that the money was from the mum & dad, not just the mum?

RandomMess · 18/02/2018 13:27

The step sister doesn't seem to care that their joint life savings were loaned to her and they relied on the interest she was repaying! Do now a frail man has no savings and no monthly income and no wife!!! Bloody mess for everyone.

Money gets people into a nicer home then when the money runs out council steps in, no money usually equals dire care Home IME!!!

Yes the council will query where £20k of joint savings suddenly disappeared too Confuseddo you not think the council haven't seen this all before?

iBiscuit · 18/02/2018 13:37

When one half of a couple dies, any children usually have to wait until the surviving partner dies until they inherit anything from the marriage, surely? I'm not talking about personal effects, but joint savings or property.

APerfectSky · 18/02/2018 13:41

I imagine the step sister stopped paying after her mum died because she suspected your dad wouldn't leave her anything when he died (which would have been their joint estate, esp if married for 20 years) and it was her way of inheriting something from her mum?

Op, would your dad have left her anything in his will had she not borrowed this money?

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