Would you consider secondary school options when buying a house with a 3 year old DD?

[Absofrigginlootly]

DH, DD and I have been living overseas in the states for nearly 3 years. We're planning to come back to the uk this summer and after moving every 1-3 years for the past 18 years I am ready to SETTLE!!

I want a house for us to live in for the next 15 or so years to see DD and any future sibling through school.

The area we are looking at (dictated somewhat by job) is about 10 miles north of a nice city in the countryside. It has many (about 15-20) good/outstanding primary schools (as rated by OFSTED obvs so I appreciate this is highly subjective) in the area which are in catchment and because they're all small local village primaries they are all undersubscribed so I think the chances of getting a place at one are pretty good.

My issue is that the 2 or 3 nearest secondary schools within catchment are currently rated as inadequate/requiring improvement. There are several good and one outstanding secondary schools further away which appear to be in catchment but obviously these are oversubscribed.

How far in advance would you be considering school options when buying a house when your DC were only 3.5....??

We have flexibility about where we live at this point and could choose to buy in the city where there are good/outstanding primary and secondary schools (although obvs these are oversubscribed).... but my heart is in the countryside. I grew up in the countryside and lived in cities my adult life. I'm craving the simple, outdoorsy childhood for my DC that I was fortunate to experience.

Anyone who has been through both primary and secondary school application process - any advice?

Should we be thinking more about the immediate future i.e. live somewhere we like now and find a good school for next January applications (DD will be due to start September 2019) and just deal with secondary school later?

Or should we be playing the long game here? I really don't want to move again!

Although obviously I know life can't be planned to perfection I'm just so looking forward to being settled!

MN jury.... WWYD?

Yes definitely.

I moved to our current house because I had every intention of moving for secondary. Our circumstances changed and there was no chance of us moving probably ever.

Cue many years of guilt hang wringing and number crunching to figure out if we could even vaguely achieve a move. Family offered to help but there were reasons why (DS withSN) this house works for us and nowhere in a better catchment did. Even if we could afford to move there was a good chance we couldn't have afforded to live there

As it happened the local secondary went from special measures to good in a little over the six months before DD started there. When I visited the other school I really actually vehemently disliked it (although it was still have been better than the local school prior to improvement) Much relief

But funnily enough the guilt that I nearly put her in a failing school has never quite gone. I do feel a little like whilst there were go reasons why we couldn't move, it would have been throwing her to the wolves. I dislike that I ever put either her or myself in that position.

So yes I would definitely consider secondaries wherever I chose to move to. Ideally I'd chose somewhere that offered choice

Yes, we will be. I think that certain types of # schools can transform within 8 years from failing to outstanding or vice versa, but that's less likely to happen with the more established older secondaries, especially in strongly middle class areas. A lot of the best schools in the areas I'm looking at were the best schools 30+ years ago when I was at school. It's extremely unlikely that they'll become failing schools within the 7 years of primary.

For us, we are looking in London, where house prices are high, so the cost of moving (esp. stamp duty) is a huge disincentive for moving twice. Personally I also like the idea of settling, I want to turn our house into a home, add improvements to a property, so I don't want to see it as a temporary home just for the primary years. Catchment areas are tight here, and only likely to get smaller, so we are only considering houses which are very close to both the right primary and secondary. I wouldn't want to risk just being outside the catchment for the good secondaries as they are likely to shrink in future.

We moved from an area that had a failing secondary school to an area with and outstanding one when DC1 was 2. I agree with others that what is a good school now can change, but the school we moved away from had been awful for decades and is only now being turned around and outpr DC1 has been in high school for a while so would have gone to a failing school if we’d stayed. The area we moved to had a good school which is now graded as excellent by ofsted and is also now 3rd in the county.

I’d say it’s not too early no.

Thanks for all the replies, very helpful..... I think we're going to have to consider secondary by the general consensus. Darn! I'd fallen in love with a particularly beautiful village! Oh well back to the drawing board.

I think with DD being 3.5 if we have another DC then they will be minimum 4 years apart so will definitely have one at secondary whilst the younger still in primary. I don't want the hassle of disrupting younger one too much to move, or trying to get 2 DC to 2 different schools far apart

I guess I can mention the area as nothing is set in stone yet and may all fall through and end up somewhere else at this stage

We're looking at the city of York and surrounding countryside.... anyone with area specific advice??

Yes, we looked at both the primary and secondary feeder schools before moving. Not just on their ofsted rating but for results, demographic, strengths etc. Yes things can change but most schools don't change that much.

If you don't want to move again, you obviously need to live somewhere that will satisfy your dc's primary and secondary education needs.

If the outstanding secondary schools have been outstanding for a long time, ex grammar schools maybe, then that's unlikely to change ime.

You assume you also want your dc to be making friendships in primary school that may continue into secondary school, so applying to a primary that feeds into the excellent secondary makes sense to me.

Otherwise, you'll be moving again in a few years.

No experience of York sorry but I think you are right to consider Secondary schools now. I’d also check out the Secondary School’s current admission policy. Although it may change, ours hasn’t changed in the 12 years that we’ve lived here. Ours takes children from their “feeder schools” before most other children which means that children who live in a gated community a few miles away actually get preference over local children who have moved here and can’t get a place in the local primaries.

there's a wellknown saying:
'It's the school master I pay but the school boys who educate my son'

A school is good or not often depends on the type of intake it attracts, and that depends on where it is situated.A school may learn to tick a few more OFSTED boxes, but the fundamental type of intake will not change.

Huntington school is supposed to be good,

I considered it when we bought a family house before I was pregnant but just keep the caveat that things change

We’ll probably move again tbh but at least where we are is great if we stay

Fulford is probably the best secondary school in York, though Manor also has a good reputation. Some villages (Copmanthorpe or Bishopthorpe I think) are also in the catchment for Tadcaster grammar school, so that might be worth checking out.

We did it when we moved to a bigger house when DC1 was 4. The secondary is the type you mention, high per house prices, very middle class catchment, etc. We know school can change in 7 or 8 years but we don’t want to move when DC is in year 5 again. And we think it’s a good bet a very middle class catchment would mean an ok secondary regardless. The other secondary school in the area is also rated good but has a more mixed catchment with ex council houses and cheaper houses.

I definitely think you should consider secondary. Once they start school the time creeps up on you very quickly and you can say that failing secondaries may become outstanding etc and vice versa but what if you bank on a low performing secondary to improve and it doesn't? Then you have the upheaval of trying to move with a much shorter time frame and more panic.

The school my kids are in was in special measures just a few years ago. It's a phenomenal school. You really can't predict what will happen. Look for good primaries and worry about secondary later.

You can check catchment areas on your LA website. But they could change. And living in catchment doesn't always guarantee a place at an oversubscribed school. Also, the criteria for ratings given to schools by Ofsted are always changing so who knows which schools will be requiring improvement in the future.

Absofrigginlootly Sat 17-Feb-18 23:42:20
I know what you're saying but the outstanding schools in the city I'm talking about are on a par with the private schools in the area as rated by the good schools guide etc.

In that case, if they are over subscribed as you say, move nearby to play the long game. Also it would mean you child can move on with friends.

Where I am it is so over-subscribed that even for those living in the area, it may not be possible to get into the good nearby secondary school especially if you have not been a primary nearby school.

Thanks all. Probably a stupid question but I feel like i don't really know how it works and having been put the country for nearly 3 years I feel even more cut off..... but how did you choose your DC's primary school when you're in the catchment area for several? Do they run open days? Would those be in the autumn 2018 for January 2019 applications if starting September 2019??

As all the primaries in our area are good, we chose the closet one that fed to the local high school.

I would certainly select an area based on the secondary school and well as the primary. We had a choice of good/outstanding primaries and picked the one closest to us as it was also our catchment school. We had to apply before Christmas so that DC could go the following September. Good luck with House hunting op, it is a pain but it's worth the hassle just to get it right and have a straight run through school without panic of out of area applications.

FYI ripon has a grammar and a good secondary. That's not far from York.

Do they run open days? Would those be in the autumn 2018 for January 2019 applications if starting September 2019??

Not sure about Yorkshire. But our local ones advertise their open days in the local magazine that is delivered to all the houses round my way. You can also ring all the schools in catchment. And yes the open days for sept 2019 entries will be in the autumn term of 2018. Remember school offices open term time school hours only if you want to ring.

To choose a primary if you are in catchment for many. Well I guess you just have to go by what you see on open days. Gut feeling and all.

But if you need to apply for sept 2019 entry you need to be in the house this year!

Headdreamer we will start off in rented to get to know the area before buying so address shouldn't be an issue

Yes, bought in catchment for good primary and secondary. Didn't have any DC's at that point. Been in the house now 10 years and it's gone by in a flash. So greatful that we don't need to think about moving in next few years just for a secondary school. SIL has had to move once for primary and will have to do the same for secondary when the time comes. Crazy.

We are considering it. Our daughter is yet to be born (due next week). I appreciate things can change over time and we are more bothered about primary schools ATM for that reason but it's good to know that the area in which we are looking to buy presently has a couple of excellent state secondaries.

You can only do your best with the information you have available at the time, so I'd say it's worth considering but not worth letting it become a deciding factor.

Good luck with your house Hunting!