To think letting a cat go outside is NOT "Cruel" or "Abusive"?

[SneakyGremlins]

Had a heated debate polite discussion with an American last night about cats. Said American - and their friends - think cats should be permanently kept indoors, and it's cruel and animal abuse to let them go outside because, I quote, "There's bears, snakes, wolves and coyotes, people putting down poisoned food, cars and all sorts of dangers".

I snappily politely pointed out that America does not equal the world, and while I concluded that cars are indeed a danger for pets, Living IN ENGLAND I have yet to see any coyotes or bears or wolves. I've never come across poisoned food either - although again this does happen rarely, I admit.

I also pointed out that cats can get depressed/stressed being cooped up inside all day, which was met with "You just need to play with them all day, then they won't be bored! It's cruel and heartless to make a cat go outside into the dangerous wilderness!"

AIBU to think that it is not a bad thing to let a cat go outside?

I think it’s cruel to keep them indoors.

I have a Persian kitten and had to sign an agreement with the breeder not to let him outside.

What could the breeder do about it though?

The cat becomes your property. It isnt illegal and what could they sue you for?

"I have a Persian kitten and had to sign an agreement with the breeder not to let him outside."

And they will enforce this exactly how?

I think cats should be kept indoors. Humans fuck up the environment they live in enough, without cats going out and killing the few bits of wildlife that do manage to survive. I may be biased though as I spent 8 months helping to reintroduce ground nesting birds into a nature reserve. Planning permission was granted for a new housing estate half a mile away. We then had to abandon the project as the cats from the housing estate would decimate our lovely nightingales

Sadly, I think it’s cruel to keep them in although totally get why people do this.

My DN beautiful two year old cat was run over and killed yesterday by a car.

My niece is totally heartbroken; the cat was her world. We are all devastated for her. He was such a beautiful boy and brought her so much happiness.

In the grand scheme of things, be a cat kept inside or let outside, as long as they are happy and loved then that’s all that matters.

Nope. It's cruel to keep them indoors though. Unless you play with them a LOT and make sure there's a lot of windows open/circulation of fresh air. Think how crappy you'd feel stuck indoors all day with no fresh air ever.

Ive written this on other threads like this, but where I live the covenant states cat ownership is not allowed to protect the area’s unique fauna. I do have a cat, and I keep her inside, unlike some others around me who don’t - I’ve seen the results. We also have animals that can dangerous to cats that wander - my neighbour’s cat, quite a large, fearsome creature In his own right, was killed by an animal unknown. My cat is pampered, happy, injury and disease-free and alive ... and so are the wildlife in my garden.

I have three cats (all rescue). My tom goes out regularly day and night. The smallest girl has just started at a year old going into the front garden and sitting under the hedge. Middle girl has sat on the doorstep twice then legged it back inside. She is an indoor cat by choice.

Mine also either poo in my front garden or use their trays.

I’ve always had outdoor cats and my last tom was killed by rat poison. He was a great hunter and I’d often open the door to find several beheaded rats nicely lined up for me . Sadly I think he ended up eating poison and I found him dead in our back garden (he was 10yrs old). He had a good life though.

Honestly I think it really depends on the character of the cat, the immediate environment and an acceptance that there is a risk.

Fizz, I play with my cat A LOT and have windows open for fresh air even in the middle of winter.
Is that more cruel than leaving her to the mercy of the local cat killer who beheads cats and cuts their tails off- local vet posted a photo of an x-ray taken of one poor little mite who'd suffered this.

fizzthecat1 mine's indoors, elderly now, and used to be an outdoors cat.

I try to get around it by giving her access to the outdoors communal garden and supervised access to the lane outside.

Frustratingly enough there's a park less than a minute's walk away but across a (quiet) one way road, the cat is very timid but I'm building up to introducing her to a harness, then seeing how she likes the park.

I don't want her to get frightened though so this will be a few months project! If she doesn't like it I'd have to abandon it.

Cats are not the problem when it comes to wildlife predation. People are the problem, loss of habitat in particular:

www.rspb.org.uk/birds-and-wildlife/advice/gardening-for-wildlife/animal-deterrents/cats-and-garden-birds/are-cats-causing-bird-declines/

echt nonetheless, cats are natural predators. They are also vulnerable to other, larger predators and in the urban environment, traffic and other hazards. That article you posted even states they can be a particular problem if they live next to heathlands.

How do you make a garden escape proof? Surely the fences would have to be so high, and devoid of nearby greenery that would act as climbing aids, that the garden would end up looking like a prison yard?

My sister in law has a Ragdoll and whilst I don't believe she was made to sign an agreement for him to not go outside, she was advised this. They are very naive and trusting and have poor awareness of their own safety. Basically, the risk of him getting eaten by a fox or similar because he wouldn't recognise he was in a dangerous situation is too high, he's incredibly sweet natured and gentle and would just assume that any other animal that approached him just wanted to be his friend!

I also have a friend who has lost two cats that went out at night and never came back. She never found out what happened to either of them. Missing presumed dead, essentially. This may simply be outright bad luck, and the cats in question may have just both been run over on a main road close to her home. But I've also read reports of cat theft being a problem in her area. She still has one remaining cat and when I read the reports of cat theft I was deeply conflicted as to whether I should tell her or not. She was absolutely gutted when the cats went and not knowing what has happened to them has been really hard for her. The idea that they might potentially have been stolen to be used as bait by dog fighters makes me feel sick to my stomach and I know she couldn't cope with that thought. Equally though, I didn't want to say nothing and for the third cat to also disappear never to be seen again. In the end I told her I'd read reports of cat thefts in her area and people selling stolen cats as pets, which could potentially be what happened to her first two. I'm not sure whether she still lets the other cat out at night, but I don't think she does. When she or her partner are at home the cat can obviously play in the garden. It's not ideal, but I think on balance a live cat with reduced outdoor time is better than a cat bein prematurely run over or meeting a worse fate after bein stolen. 😔

Cats cause massive, massive depletion of our native wildlife and they do not eat 95% of what they kill. A responsible owner will allow their cat access to their garden and cat proof it to stop them escaping. My next door neighbour has had 7 cats over 10 years as they keep getting run over or going missing. That is shocking .

People that choose to get a cat and just throw it out for the day.night are irresponsible and need to take responsibility for the damage cats cause to wildlife, their neighbours property and also accept it it their fault when the cat gets hit by a car or mauled by a dog on a lead.

Catios (cat patios) seem a "thing" in the US now.

But HOW does one cat proof a garden Fanny?

But HOW does one cat proof a garden

Why don't you just put that into google? Essentially you make sure you've got a fence around it that has no holes. On top of the fence there are overhanging, rolling poles that stop the cat getting a grip and going over the top of the fence.

The main reason was so we didn't have to deal with litter trays tbh

You do realise how selfish that is? Unless you’re ensuring your cat is using your own garden

@JacquesHammer
Cats bury their waste and it's biodegradable. I can't bring myself to worry about it.

The back yards of our street are yards rather than gardens (think Coronation St) so he's not digging up flower beds as there aren't any. I suspect he goes in the alleyway between our street and the road behind, which is overgrown.

I would have to give my cat away if it couldn’t go outside. It destroys itself and furniture when cooped up. When let outside it is a very loving and not aggressive Cat!

Not all cats bury their shite..although mine does and I wish she didn't as I have to go around the garden digging looking for it. Other cats come in a shit and don't bury it mainly a ginger tom. Bastard.

Cat owners underestimate the pain in the arse their pets can be to the neighbours so all in all, I think cats are a pretty selfish choice of pet if they're going to be let out. Each to their own though

I don't get this. In what way are other peoples cats a pain in the arse? There are plenty of cats in my neighbourhood, they have never give me an issue of any kind. Now I also have a cat, he is no trouble to anyone.

I googled it Gabilan. Any cat worth its salt in a garden with trees and shrubs would breach that security easily, using trees as a ladder. And if there were no trees/large shrubs in the garden it would be a very barren place which would be bad for wildlife anyway.

... and no growth in the garden except a lawn would make it very dull for the poor cat.

Actually, neighbours' cats can be more of an issue if you have a cat/cats. Because more aggressive cats come into your garden or even through your cat flap to eat your own cats' food. We used to have to cope with that, but we have a big bruiser of a tomcat now who guards his territory really well.

Our cats do bury their poo, and they appear to stick to our garden, I've seen them do it often enough. One thing cat owners should do IMO is make sure there's a suitable area for their cats to do their business in their own garden.