To think letting a cat go outside is NOT "Cruel" or "Abusive"?

[SneakyGremlins]

Had a heated debate polite discussion with an American last night about cats. Said American - and their friends - think cats should be permanently kept indoors, and it's cruel and animal abuse to let them go outside because, I quote, "There's bears, snakes, wolves and coyotes, people putting down poisoned food, cars and all sorts of dangers".

I snappily politely pointed out that America does not equal the world, and while I concluded that cars are indeed a danger for pets, Living IN ENGLAND I have yet to see any coyotes or bears or wolves. I've never come across poisoned food either - although again this does happen rarely, I admit.

I also pointed out that cats can get depressed/stressed being cooped up inside all day, which was met with "You just need to play with them all day, then they won't be bored! It's cruel and heartless to make a cat go outside into the dangerous wilderness!"

AIBU to think that it is not a bad thing to let a cat go outside?

My indoor girl gets plenty of opportunity to do her cat thing - stalking, starring down evil doers, plotting hiding, climbing, playing, scratching her territory, chasing, snoozing in the sun and yes, she gets to bestow gifts - usually particular soft toys.
I wish I could let her out but the vet has confirmed we have a cat killer in the area. And our road is pretty busy - everyone ignores the traffic calming measures.

Jacques I envy you for living somewhere with no vermin but that's our case. As for the awful cats killing the wildlife, in the 8 years of living where I live, I had about 10 birds left as a present. But when driving to work everyday, I saw at least 5 crows or pigeons smeared on the road, dead foxes, rabbits and badgers and the occasional squirrel, cat or dog. Must be an army of motorised felines killing the wildlife in the night.

Afaik the rspca won't let you home a cat if you can't give it access to the outdoors, unless you take a cat which has specific disabilities that mean it wouldn't be able to go outside anyway.

Personally I would find it cruel to keep a young healthy cat indoors. Yes there are risks to going outside, but the same applies to human beings! I don't ban myself or the dc from going out in case we get hit by a car, because that would be a miserable life. Same thing applies to cats.

My cat is scared of the day. So, he goes out under the cover of darkness...this involves belly running from front door to under car where he bravely stares at things for 10 minutes and then he belly runs in again. Even in the summer. Odd bod.

yabu
it's cruel to keep pets in most cases.

As for the awful cats killing the wildlife, in the 8 years of living where I live, I had about 10 birds left as a present. But when driving to work everyday, I saw at least 5 crows or pigeons smeared on the road, dead foxes, rabbits and badgers and the occasional squirrel, cat or dog. Must be an army of motorised felines killing the wildlife in the night

What a bizarre way of excusing what cats do to wildlife. I live semi rurally. I see roadkill which is unpleasant.

However roadkill isn’t left on my doorstep by next door’s BMW.

I find it wholly unacceptable that wildlife I like to enjoy in my garden is limited because of someone else’s pet, not to mention how upsetting it is to my DD.

yep, I can't have a bird feeder in my garden, because if would turn into a car feeder...

with the consequence that one of them climbs onto my extension roof and into my bedroom. I bloody hate it!

This is why I love cats. They are total bastards.

I wouldn't breed from a cat or buy from a breeder. I'd only ever get a rescue cat. But mine are ace.

Humans are in the process of trashing this planet and its inhabitants. Would it be better if there were fewer domestic cats? I expect so, yes. It would also be better if there were fewer humans. And don't forget that whilst yes, we've introduced domestic cats, we've also managed to kill off several large predatory species in the UK. We've totally altered the balance of nature. Domestic cats a small part of that.

This is why I love cats. They are total bastards

As amusing as you find it, it’s soul destroying living next door to a cat that breaks in. I have a patch of carper ruined in my hallway that it has used to scratch. I have had food taken from my kitchen.

It breaks in through window screens, or if I leave the door open to carry shopping in.

In Queensland (state law varies so many not apply in other states) it's not illegal for cats to be outdoors at any time of day or night.
However
They must be registered and chipped (in not doing so you can face several fines). They can't cause a nuisance (yowling/fighting/shitting all over someone else's garden/destroying local wildlife) and it's recommended that they are supervised outdoors (ie on a leash) or kept indoors. I don't know anyone with outdoor cats.

That's not to say Australia is a great example of animal rights. A council within a couple hours drive of me has an active bounty on stray/feral cats. $10 a scalp.

I had one that used to break in to two neighbors. One lot loved him. The others I gave a water spray and full permission to use it. He learned very fast.

However roadkill isn’t left on my doorstep by next door’s BMW.

I find it wholly unacceptable that wildlife I like to enjoy in my garden is limited because of someone else’s pet, not to mention how upsetting it is to my DD.

So clarify for me, Jacques. What is it that you find distressing about wildlife being killed? Because from that it would seem that you're not bothered about wildlife being killed for the sake of the wildlife, but because of the effect it has on you. It seems to be a case of "Roadkill? Oh it's unpleasant but I don't really have to see it. Things on my doorstep, affects me, don't like it".

So clarify for me, Jacques. What is it that you find distressing about wildlife being killed? Because from that it would seem that you're not bothered about wildlife being killed for the sake of the wildlife, but because of the effect it has on you. It seems to be a case of "Roadkill? Oh it's unpleasant but I don't really have to see it. Things on my doorstep, affects me, don't like it"

(a) the fact I can't enjoy watching the wildlife in my garden
(b) the fact I have to clear up carcasses
(c) the fact that my garden is affected by someone else's pet

Is it really that hard to understand?

I don't like seeing roadkill either, but given I can't suggest everyone doesn't drive there's not much I can do...

All you wildlife lovers who don’t like cats as they kill birds do realise I hope that birds are also killing other wildlife. Insects and worms are food for birds but they don’t count as they are not cute. But they are a valuable part of our eco system and play a valuable part in soil fertility and plant reproduction.

Insects and worms are food for birds but they don’t count as they are not cute

I think they're cute we have bird proof areas in the garden, we also have plants that are great for bees in one part of the garden and bug houses made by DD at Forest School.

To some extent though, wild animals feeding to stay alive is not as horrible to deal with as animals doing it for fun, like domestic cats

Is it really that hard to understand?

What's coming across clearly is that you don't like the effects that other people's cats have on you. That's fair enough. It's not coming across as concern for wildlife per se.

I grew up with cats in a suburban environment. Now I've had two in a rural environment, I don't think I'd have them as pets in suburbia. They love the freedom to roam, relatively free from traffic. I have very few neighbours and they were happy for me to get cats, as it saves them from trapping mice. Since the cats were feral, they're very wary of anybody other than me so my neighbours only rarely see them, and then at a distance.

What's coming across clearly is that you don't like the effects that other people's cats have on you. That's fair enough. It's not coming across as concern for wildlife per se.

I don't like the effect on the wildlife.

I don't like the shit in my garden.

I don't like the wrecking of my carpets/stealing my food,

It isn't an either/or situation.

i Also think they are cute but most don’t.
I have made a Victorian stumpary in part of my garden to encourage insect life but the birds love to hang around the stumps pecking away at any larvae found.
I have 3 cats who all go outside but still manage to have bird feeders without the cats getting the birds. There are plenty of sites on the web which will try you how to cat proof your bird feeders.

Fair enough, Jacques. I thought long and hard about getting a cat, or cats, partly because of the impacts that they have. However, I had rats living in the house. So I had a choice. Live with rats, and all the mess and potential danger that entails given the diseases they carry and their ability to chew through electricity cables and thus start fires. Poison the rats. Trap the rats. Get a dog - hopelessly impractical and unfair on a dog as I work long hours. Or get cats.

I decided cats were the best answer. Pest control is the reason we tamed them. And I made sure I got them from a rescue charity as it meant I wasn't encouraging breeding, just giving a more stable home to two previously feral animals. Trying to trap and poison rats would have had an adverse effect on other wildlife as well. Cats were a slightly more natural and selective form of pest control.

My friend has two rescue cats with completely different personalities. One stays in, refuses to put a paw outside and just likes to watch the world go by at the window,gets up to her own mischief about the house. Soft as anything and daft as a brush.
The other sees her home as a bed and breakfast with the bonus of a servant. She's a notorious bird killer, much to the upset of my friend who's put so many bells on her she sounds like a small Morris Dancer!
I don't think it's cruel if the cat desires to be outside.

I think if the cat has never been outside then it doesn't know it and so can't miss it.

Try telling that to my cats. They were kept indoors for nine months and a right pain it was too, forever watching that doors and windows were shut even in the height of summer. We have a big house and lots of people to entertain them but it wasn't enough. They wanted to be out and they took their frustration out on each other. Even now if the weather's bad or they have to be kept in for any reason their behaviour goes downhill fast.

cruel to be indoors

We have two cats. My garden has at least 5 passing through plus a large fox who suns itself on my lawn. Still get pesky magpies squawking on the fence though. Ds just had a strange cat look through his bedroom windon on the 1st floor. Shat himself.

The average life span of an outdoor cat is 4 years, the average lifespan of an indoor cat is 20 years.

We have two neutered toms at present. They go outdoors (though we keep them in at night for the sake of local wildlife. They are nearly six.

Our previous three cats (all outdoor, all neutered died aged 18 (2 of them) and 22. Averages are very deceptive. I think if they live long enough to learn the dangers of traffic, then they will live as long as an indoor cat. (Though if I lived on a busy road I would not keep a cat - we live in an urban but not terribly heavy traffic area).

Contrary to another Persian owner who posted , I do let mine out as I dont agree with keeping her in. We have a secure rear garden so she cannot wander and only goes out when we let her as we dont have a cat flap. She loves it out there. I would find it very hard watching her stare longingly out of the window 😔