To think letting a cat go outside is NOT "Cruel" or "Abusive"?

[SneakyGremlins]

Had a heated debate polite discussion with an American last night about cats. Said American - and their friends - think cats should be permanently kept indoors, and it's cruel and animal abuse to let them go outside because, I quote, "There's bears, snakes, wolves and coyotes, people putting down poisoned food, cars and all sorts of dangers".

I snappily politely pointed out that America does not equal the world, and while I concluded that cars are indeed a danger for pets, Living IN ENGLAND I have yet to see any coyotes or bears or wolves. I've never come across poisoned food either - although again this does happen rarely, I admit.

I also pointed out that cats can get depressed/stressed being cooped up inside all day, which was met with "You just need to play with them all day, then they won't be bored! It's cruel and heartless to make a cat go outside into the dangerous wilderness!"

AIBU to think that it is not a bad thing to let a cat go outside?

Mewler does not like Dreamies only Thrive

YANBU. As an aside, and I'm by no means tarring a whole nation with the same brush, quite a few Americans seem to think that America does equal the world.

If I lived in a safer area for cats, I'd let mine out but we have a cat killer operating in our area so she's never been out.
It's not cruel to let them out but I would also keep my cat in if I lived where my us cousins live - plenty of scary wildlife.

I have four cats, and they are mostly indoors. Two of them will sit outside the back door, but only if it isn't wet or windy. One of them goes out of the back door, has a pootle round in the garden for 20 minutes and then sits by the front door waiting for me to let her in. The other one will go off into the garden, but bolts for the door if she hears a car, plane or any other noise she isn't sure of. None of them show any interest in hunting at all, and I've never been presented with a mouse or a bird. They're just too well fed and lazy!

Mine used to be allowed out until he broke his jaw. We live in a once bedroom maisonette so it’s too small to keep him indoors so we decided to cat proof the garden. He can now go in and out as he pleases, although we do keep him in at night.

Even when he was out and about he didn’t catch very much - the only birds he brought home were long dead! Not that I would ever encourage birds into the garden as I don’t like them.

Snap,@Accidentally- mine poop in their trays only. One will have a ‘nature wee’ on occasion but again, only in my garden.

PerfectlySymmetricalButtocks Sat 17-Feb-18 15:19:33

"YANBU. As an aside, and I'm by no means tarring a whole nation with the same brush, quite a few Americans seem to think that America does equal the world."

Your statement IS "tarring a whole nation with the same brush", though.

You don't KNOW "quite a few" Americans in the kind of numbers that would qualify you to make any sort of conclusion at all about what the majority of Americans think/feel/do. The fact that you know a few Americans does not give you any kind of an idea about what most Americans think/feel/do.

We allow our 4 cats to go out freely, but it's a safe area for them really. The roads around our estate have speed bumps, so the traffic is pretty slow and there isn't a through road so there isn't much traffic. I've also never seen any foxes around here.

One of them does catch mice and birds, but not all that many birds really. Once you let cats outside, there isn't an awful lot you can do to stop that, apart from open a window to allow a bird to escape, which I have done before.

You got at least put a bell on it's collar Lizzie.

YANBU of course it's not cruel it's in their nature to want to be outside. It only since humans domesticated cats that they have lived in houses. My mums cats would be depressed if they couldn't go outside. As for the hunting again that's just nonsense. Cats and these 'rare' birds have existed for thousands of years without them going extinct. The only reason I have heard of an animal going extinct is because of human intervention in some form (correct me if I'm wrong)
Having said all that I have two indoors cats (we live near a main road) but they are use to it and seem happy. I do let them out in the garden.

To put a bell on a collar you have to put on a collar.

No way I'm putting a tight collar on my cat because I don't want him garotted. And they slip looser/quick release collars in seconds. Collars are for accompanied animals, chiefly dogs.

According to my youngest cat, not letting him outside is cruel, even when it's pouring down & I know he'll want to be straight back in.

I've never managed to get a collars on my cats, I've tried but they've always managed to get them off. I confess I've given up now.

I have several cats. They are primarily house cats, and have been all their lives. The only time they've been outside is loose in a cat proof garden, on a harness, or in a purpose built run.

Cats do catch wildlife, birds and bats - this is an issue. In many places, our wildlife is struggling, they don't need a predator added to the mix.

Cats are at risk in this busy life of being run over. Some years ago I worked in vets, and I watched cats dying after being run over. I choose not to expose my cats to this risk.

There is also the huge issue of disease - the last lot of stats I read said that 1 in 4 cats on the south coast had either HIV or FELV, or both. Again, this is a choice I make for my cats, not to expose them to the risk of life ending/altering conditions.

Then there are all the other variables - foxes, badgers, minks, machinery, etc, which put their lives at risk.

And finally there is the socially responsible aspect. I just don't think it's reasonable that my neighbours should have to put up with my cats crapping in their gardens - how can this ever be considered reasonable or acceptable?

I highly doubt there are many bears and coyotes or wolves (practically extinct most places there id imagine) are strolling around most American suburban gardens

I live in a suburb of the biggest city in my state and I get coyotes in my garden. A lynx was prowling a couple of miles away recently. I'm not even particularly rural. Bears are very common in gardens during certain seasons.

You can't adopt a cat here unless you sign a form saying you will not let them out. I let mine out knowing that potentially they could be killed.

My cat didn't have a collar for all the usual reasons until she went missing on Christmas Day a few years ago. She'd got out late the night before when DH went to get the turkey out of the boot of the car where it was keeping cold. The people who found her six or so doors down, very kindly took her to the vet where her chip was read and they called us at 3pm after a miserable day. If she'd had a collar with our phone number on, we would have got her back much, much earlier and they wouldn't have had to disrupt their Christmas Day. I am a convert to collar and tag, she has never lost it or had an accident with it.

'I highly doubt there are many bears and coyotes or wolves (practically extinct most places there id imagine) are strolling around most American suburban gardens'

They can be quite common in plenty of Western states. In addition, there are a number of wild mammals that can be rabid and will attack or fight with a cat - raccoons, possums, squirrels, etc.

Another issue is, and this came up with dogs recently, amazingly, typhus. Fleas carried by rodents there can carry typhus, which then affect the domestic pet. That state of Texas had 116 recorded cases of typhus from this source last year.

wolves (practically extinct most places there id imagine)

I meant to add - the Eastern Coyote is actually a mix of coyote and wolf, making them bigger than coyotes in the west. I actually worry about coyotes attacking my dog as well as my cats.

Cats can also be bitten by mosquitos and become vectors for disease as such or develop disease as a result of mosquito bite.

My cats also bring in ticks all summer. Sometimes they're attached - I probably remove about one tick a day from my longhair cat. Often they're not attached -- and as the cat likes to sleep on DD's bed, DD has occasionally woken up with a tick attached to her, which means we then need to worry about Lyme Disease.

This cat is dosed with two different tick-prevention meds but nothing seems to work.

This is a common thing among Americans, a lot of them also give their cats weekly baths, brush their teeth and de claw or trim their claws. I once fell down an Internet rabbit hole of American cat ownership that was quite illuminating. Turns out I'm a terrible cat owner - I feed him, give him flea treatment, and take him for checkups /vaccinations and he comes and goes as he pleases. That's literally it. He seems pretty happy. I'm not about that 'treating your cat like your child' life but each to their own

Cats and these 'rare' birds have existed for thousands of years without them going extinct. The only reason I have heard of an animal going extinct is because of human intervention in some form (correct me if I'm wrong)

You are wrong. Cats would not exist in anything like the numbers they do in the modern world if humans were not keeping them as pets so the 'thousands of years' argument doesn't hold. At no point in history would there ever have naturally been 8 million cats in this country.

Regarding the extinctions/impact on native wildlife, have a read of these...
www.iflscience.com/plants-and-animals/cats-responsible-for-driving-many-species-to-extinction/

www.nature.com/articles/ncomms2380

Quotes from the Nature article - 'Free-ranging domestic cats have been introduced globally and have contributed to multiple wildlife extinctions on islands'
'Our findings suggest that free-ranging cats cause substantially greater wildlife mortality than previously thought and are likely the single greatest source of anthropogenic mortality for US birds and mammals'

I think it’s cruel they naturally hunt however I wished my cats had wanted to live indoors, we have lost 4 in 10 years on the road outside our home :( devastating

Bold fail there on the quotes.

By 'islands' the article means places like Australia, New Zealand, Madagascar, Hawaii as well as countless smaller islands.

MrsHathaway I would have thought it was the unaccompanied pets that needed a collar more-to put their details on in case they get lost surely?