Death of man in Westminster Tube Station

[LittleLostLion]

So, I saw this as I was walking to work this week. I experienced a range of emotions when I read the man had died [for those of you that don't know this man was experiencing homelessness and died a few hundred feet from the Houses of Parliament].

Quite an outpouring of how unacceptable this was from some MPs including Jeremy Corbyn, as well as charities who were supporting the man.

It's now being reported that he had been deported twice, the first time because he had sexually abused a child and had a prison sentence, the second for re-entering the UK illegally.

Connections have been reporting on how they have been supporting this man to find a job - AIBU to think they should be doing background checks on people before they start helping them source work?

All I can think of is this had the potential to be Alice Gross all over again. Why the hell haven't we learnt our lessons?

Not to make this a taat but there were plenty of people who thought that Robert Thompson deserved his second chance and should never have been tried or spoken about as he was, despite being a murderous little bastard, because he was a child and had now 'reformed'. Cries of 'bad home life' were aplenty.

This man has also committed horrible crimes, served his time and had his own demons to contest with but deserves to freeze to death.

www.homeless.org.uk/connect/blogs/2017/nov/06/london-winter-shelters-2017-18-list-published

Someone asked about where to volunteer - above is a list of all volunteer run winter night shelters in London which don't have their own venues but borrow church halls etc

You'll notice that almost all go them say they can only take low or medium needs homeless people (because volunteers are not professional social, drug support or mental health workers after all) and people with no history of violence (and again, this is shared info). Very few accept walk ins, guests are checked and referred to the shelter by front line professional social workers including migration status. It's a pretty well organised system given the diversity of volunteer groups involved.

So there is an obvious issue in that there are very few services for high needs homeless people who don't have legal migration status because state funded services can't take them because of funding rules and volunteer run groups won't because they don't have the skills to manage it. If this guy in Westminster fell into the category because he had a sex crime record then yes, there was really no where else for him to go.

it's a funny coincidence that a lot more of them seem to make those choices whenever the Conservatives are in government.

Which could be interpreted as more socialist Gov'ts intervening and preventing people from making choices because "the state knows what's best for them".

I appreciate that there are ideological political differences - but, just as a for instance, state funded wet-shelters would result in fewer rough sleepers - but I haven't seen many Labour controlled Councils willing to provide those.

Which could be interpreted as more socialist Gov'ts intervening and preventing people from making choices because "the state knows what's best for them".

Yes, terrible socialists preventing people from making the "choice" to sleep rough.

I’m with you there granny

I wonder how much sympathy would be given by some MNetters if it was their child he abused. Historic or not.

He was an oxygen thief, and one that kept returning like a bad penny.

notdavid What is your solution, then? We've heard on this thread that some rough sleepers are violent, refuse to engage in substance misuse programmes or breach tenancy agreements as soon as accommodation is provided.

How can a Gov't provide homes for those people, while still allowing them to express themselves the way they choose to?

I've spent most of my life living near coastal marinas. It's a lot easier than you might think.

Sure, but still more difficult to cross than land borders. :)

No country can have fool proof borders. Even the US with their famous fences and walls get illegal immigrants.

My point is that I don't think the issue here (or in general) is border security.

And the fact that a homeless person died outside Parliament is not negated by whatever criminal acts he commited or what nationality he was.
He's a symbol.

Do I feel sorry for a paedophile? Not really.
Do I feel sorry that people die on the streets? Yes.

His national origin or crime past should not invalidate that more should be done for the homeless.

Yes I am fully aware of how much home-grown misogyny, sex offences and plain ol' violence there are, believe me: but I can see why people would not want to import more.

Are you prepared to present your criminal record next time you want to visit another European country?

Well I don't feel too bad for him - I've had enough first and secondhand experience in the trauma paedophiles cause to just not feel for them the way I do others.

However, I don't see any reason this couldn't happen to a homeless person simply suffering mental illness/addiction so I am really sad it can happen.

I feel sorry that people die on the streets. I couldn’t give a monkeys that this particular person died on the streets.

It does raise the question of which society should be responsible for him. Is it Britain, because he was here? Even if he arrived illegally (which we don't know but if he'd been deported previously it's a possibility) and even if he breaks the law when he's here? Is it Portugal, because that's where he came here from? Is it Angola, because that's where his family are?

The first seems the obvious answer but then again why should British taxpayers bear the burden of anyone who wants to come here and commit crimes? The stats seem to suggest about 11% of prisoners are not British nationals, which is a tremendous amount of money: researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN04334/SN04334.pdf

Homelessness is much more difficult, of course - but if someone chooses to break the law to get here, like the Calais camp occupiers, should we have to find them accommodation? Why? Those who have come here legally deserve the same rights as everyone else, of course.

it's the fourth homeless person to die in Westminster this year

How many people not living on the street have died in Westminster this year? People die in council houses, in substandard rented houses and in houses they own. Some live alone, in isolation and tragically nobody notices that they have died.

This particular man didn’t have any family left in Portugal but not having any family left isn’t a unique experience and doesn’t automatically lead to rough sleeping in a foriegn country. Surely the Portuguese authorities bear responsibility for not dealing with him properly after he had been deported back there? They should be held to account for not giving him support and treatment for any alleged mental health problems because their failure led to him sleeping rough in London.

I wonder how many British nationals are homeless in Europe I'm betting it's very low. We are one of the most generous countries in Europe.

Regardless of background it shouldn't be happening in modern day Britain. I thought we'd moved on from the deserving/undeserving poor mentality When I was studying in the 1970s we all found the deserving/undeserving poor concept so bizarre. It is hard to understand how it has become so mainstream now.

Surely the Portuguese authorities bear responsibility for not dealing with him properly after he had been deported back there? They should be held to account for not giving him support and treatment for any alleged mental health problems because their failure led to him sleeping rough in London.

In principle, yes, but we don't know what motivated him to go to London.

It's not common practice to lock up people in homeless shelters or mental institutions.

Homeless brits abroad:

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/why-are-so-many-westerners-homeless-in-thailand-8830302.html

Including, probably, sex criminals.

So Labour's in favour of housing illegal immigrant sex offenders at public expense? Good luck with that campaign slogan!

And the fact that a homeless person died outside Parliament is not negated by whatever criminal acts he commited or what nationality he was.
He's a symbol.

A symbol of left-wing pathological empathy? How about some sympathy for his victims?

So Labour's in favour of housing illegal immigrant sex offenders at public expense?

Just so long as they aren't Jewish!

Presumably this person knew that the uk gets fairly cold when he left his warm native country to live on our streets, twice.

People make choices about their wellbeing and sometimes they come to harm or die because they are bad decisions. That’s no-ones responsibility but their own.

We can’t help everyone.

A symbol of left-wing pathological empathy? How about some sympathy for his victims?

A symbol of how vulnerable homeless people are.

Like I said, no sympathy for this specific person.
Sympathy for this situation in which many vulnerable people fall, for different reasons.

strawberries, you had a terrible experience and it is shameful that you were left in that situation as a young, vulnerable person. The awful thing is that I think it is probably worse now.