To wonder why the older generation can't admit that things are harder for millennials?

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So we just had our meeting with a mortgage advisor. They will lend my dp £45,000 (not even enough for a bedsit in this town) and so I'm not even bothering to do mine as I earn less. We work very hard (44 hours and 27 hours) we just have low paid jobs and pay childcare for two under 5's!
I talked to my stepdad who compared it to when he had to borrow £36,000 to buy his first house in the early eighties. That was 3 times his salary and his wife stayed at home. He paid it off in six years. It's not the same. He was given a mortgage which was enough to buy a nice house in an area close to family and where he worked. He didn't have to have a bank manager saying 'well if you move to Wales or up north?' He didn't have to rent forever and have nothing to pass down to his children. It's not the same!

Gwenhwyfar this is what my nephew and partner are doing, house first kids later. Worked har, took any overtime going on standard hourly paid jobs. Saved deposit for 3 years. Bought 2 bed flat 35 miles from Central London at 21. Still saving for The Move, which will be to their family home.
I'm sure they're not the only ones.

House prices are higher and you can no longer get 100% mortgages. That is harder. Some things are much easier.

The only thing harder really is the cost of housing. Older generations had to navigate massive interest rates, massive inflation much higher unemployment the dark ages of the 70s with 3 day weeks, my parents lived through ww2 and rationing. They lived through times when you left school at 14. Everything apart from housing was much much more expensive, clothes were home made and mended. Women found it difficult to leave relationships. Now life is a lot more pressurised but largely of our own making.

Of course it's harder for millennial to get on the housing ladder.

In 1985, my slummy maisonette in London was 3x my (average) salary at £35,000.
Just found an equivalent property on Rightmove, at 10x today's average salary - £270,000.

Please don't tar all 'old' people with the same brush. Most of us retain some sense of perspective.

Hear hear gutrotweins. We're not all deluded and entitled.

House prices are higher, but so are wages.
I recall getting my first mortgage and being encouraged to get an endowment mortgage. It was meant to be a foolproof scheme to ensure when your mortgage was paid off you had a pot of savings.
It never worked ~ (the big mis-selling scandal of its day). All of us has to find other sources of finance to close the gap.
There are also places today where house prices are still low and shared equity schemes to help get on the ladder.

And there were various pension scandals where people lost their pension pot.

I do think it is harder now for middle class white men. They did have it easier in the past.

My own parents journey on the property ladder was definitely easier, they got a readily available council house, used the right to buy scheme, sold the house for a massive profit and bought an amazing house which has tripled in value. Pretty much every other area of their lives has been more difficult.

Getting onto the property ladder now is difficult. Lenders making people jump through more hoops than ever before to get a mortgage, big deposits to get a decent interest rate and a shortage of affordable homes. Neither of these problems will be solved anytime soon unfortunately.

I think if we had longer more secure tenancies like other countries where renting outnumbers homeownership would make such a huge difference to millenials looking to have the security they need in a home.
My friend for example has moved home 5 times in 2 years because the landlords were selling the properties when the market picked up, she was given her 2 months notice at one property when she was 5 weeks away from having her first baby.

I think a main point is that in the past you didnt need two earners in fancy jobs to get on the ladder. Now you do.

That is partly because a woman's wage was not taken into account or only a small amount was. That was based on the breadwinner model Once both wages were fully taken into account, prices increased.

Assuming Napoleon really called us "a nation of shopkeepers", he would clearly have been mocking us.

Today he might style us "a nation of mortgage chasers".

As someone from the Non-Muslim Indian community, I hear a lot of whining from the younger people that had to grow up under the privatisaiton policy of Thatcher and consequently Labour in the 2000s - now the problem isn't necessarily the privatisation, but rather the idea that now we, after having grown up under that period of privatisation, should be forced to pay more in taxes to people that aren't our loved-ones or ones we should care about.

I.e. I think a lot of issue is going to be held at about pensions and the unfairness of them being paid by the squeezed middle class youth.

And to add, I understand personally that taxes have benefits, but rather I'm conveying what I hear, and also I personally do think that the tax system doesn't benefit everyone.

Maybe instead of blaming older people, blame the system that has allowed house prices to go so mad, and salaries to stay so low.

Coyocan
Where would be the fun in that? It’s much easier for disgruntled people to blame people than a system.

Gwen
I’m confused. You said you’re a gen x. I thought you were a millennial. If you’re a gen x didn’t you have a considerable amount of time to get a property before the market went up?

During the 80s unemployment was high, my a dedicated hard workeinf dad struggled to find work, we lived in council houses. They struggled to afford the basics for us and to this day they have never been in a position to buy their own house. No life is not harder for this generation.

I think the op’s originally question has been a little lost or perhaps could have been phrased better.

Personally I don’t dispute that if you were raised during the war or just after life was harder (rather obviously). However, where I think the difference does lie is that by the time my parents generation was in their 30/40s financial security and home ownership was not considered unusual - now it is. That older generation are also enjoying retirement benefits that younger people continue to pay for but are unlikely to receive themselves.

Yes, older generations had it harder in many ways - the fact is that their situation improved dramatically in a way that younger people’s won’t.

It is fact that numerous government reports predict that under 30s now are not expected to maintain the lifestyles afforded to their parents. I don’t speak for myself as I’m late 30s and we own a nice family home (that was several times our income). Older generations seem to think it’s about working hard...if the costs were comparable back when they were buying houses they wouldn’t have been able to afford the houses they now own. That does matter as many will downsize and enjoy the profit.

I do find it odd that the definition of 'harder' for many people seems to be whether or not they can buy a home in London. That was out of reach for many people. My parents lived in council housing in an area much cheaper than London. They were never able to buy a house. The difference was they didn't see that as a hardship.
The push to home ownership came under Thatcher. But actually lots of people resisted her vision as their ideal.

I’m 43 and my generation did have it easier. I bought our first house for 43000 and now in a four bedroom detached. I had all my university fees paid and a full grant. I do feel sorry for young people today.

Exactly coyocan.

I am gen x but i craved a house more than i ever craved a baby tbh. Was broody for a house. Nobody telling me that in Barcelona/Zurich everybody rents was going to dissipate that feeling.

Agreed it’s not all about sky high London prices. We’re in York and I think here it is very possible for a young couple to buy a small flat, the difficulty arises when you want a larger family home and the whole point of this thread is that it was ‘easier’ or more likely to happen for that generation who are now in their 60/70s.
You do have to compare like for like though. If you are a poor pensioner now, consider the benefits you enjoy such as the triple lock pension, free bus pass, winter fuel allowance - these things are unsustainable and so the younger generation won’t have these...therefore it is harder.
Equally if you’re more middle class and own a large detached family home yet wonder why your married teacher or management daughters family are worried they’ll never get their own family home...
You can never compare the poorer with the more well off but across the board (except for the actual rich) the younger generations are paying more for less - whether that’s housing or pensions.

Foreign holidays were not unheard of.

We went to France, Italy, Spain, Switzerlans...camping but great fun.

Long haul holidays were not common.

Now the people who go on regular holudays abroad also have mortgages...in other words..the well off.

Buying a house in London isn ot really the right comparison. It is where in London perhaps - we could not buy any more central than zone 5 in London 30 years ago as it was too expensive. I am not sure that has changed much. Also areas change. Some people wont' live in my area of London which is silly - there is nothing wrong with it but areas go up and down in terms of where young people want to live. Some of the bits of London people's parents bought cheaply in were really really nasty when the parents endured them and bought them, wet rot and all sorts never mind getting mugged on the road and the parents tolerated that for 10 years whilst an area improved (or didn't improve as the case may be) - so it might have been very cheap at time of purchase for that reason.

The first house we bought in outer London now costs £420,000 today. When we bought it my salary was £6250 a year. That salary for the same job today is about £40,000. It is hard to do a comparison however given the interest rate differences 12% and 2% etc etc.

(Baby boomers did not get 100% mortgages. In fact you had to be with the same bnuilding society for years showing a savings pattern, get on with the manager, be male etc etc etc It was very hard to get a mortgage at all. My parents as I said above worked for 10 + years without having babies to get to that position. I accept for various brief period the UK has had some 100% mortgages. My parents never had one. I never had one. My children have never had one and between us we have been on the property market since about 1961 with some or all of us having a mortgage over all that period).

I think comparisons are a tricky thing but I did have an interesting conversation with my fil about the general topic and we did work some thoughts.

Their 4 bed detached home is worth about £450k, they bought it for £42k about 35 years ago. He had a decent job and mentioned a rough figure of retiring on about £50k, obviously he was earning much less 35 years ago as he was more junior. My mil has always been a sahm.

During our chat he did suddenly admit tat there’s no way in the world he would have been able to purchase their home now if he had been in that same job today with my mil at home. He genuinely hadn’t considered that before.

There’s no blame in this situation - it’s the governments fault for enacting too many policies weighted in the older generations favour over many years simply for votes. I don’t expect anyone to feel bad about their god fortune - I think younger people would just like this notion that they don’t work hard enough, spend too much etc to be replaced with the understanding that House prices now outstrip wages significantly - and not just in London!