To wonder why the older generation can't admit that things are harder for millennials?

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So we just had our meeting with a mortgage advisor. They will lend my dp £45,000 (not even enough for a bedsit in this town) and so I'm not even bothering to do mine as I earn less. We work very hard (44 hours and 27 hours) we just have low paid jobs and pay childcare for two under 5's!
I talked to my stepdad who compared it to when he had to borrow £36,000 to buy his first house in the early eighties. That was 3 times his salary and his wife stayed at home. He paid it off in six years. It's not the same. He was given a mortgage which was enough to buy a nice house in an area close to family and where he worked. He didn't have to have a bank manager saying 'well if you move to Wales or up north?' He didn't have to rent forever and have nothing to pass down to his children. It's not the same!

Apparently no one ever went out, had heating, owned a car or enjoyed any sort of fun. It was apparently all sacrifice and work.

My experience was just that. Born in the 70s, I remember getting central heating! We eventually had a second hand car. There were very few luxuries and money was extremely tight. We had one foreign holiday when i was 15. Other than that it was staying at home or a caravan week at the seaside. Parents never went out, no takeaways, few clothes, lots of hand me downs, all out stuff was from the car boot sales

I know that’s a bit ‘4 yorkshiremen’ But it’s true. I sometimes look at how I live now - nice house, hot water on tap, car on the drive and marvel. We are still quite frugal in how we live tbh.

I still didn’t have money to buy a property until I was in my late 30s, and that only after considerable personal sacrifice and moving abroad for work several times.

I don’t think it’s ever been easy to own property.

Also there were few takeaways. I remember the fish and chip shop and later one chinese takeaway. That is because far less people had money to spend on them. Same with decent ready made meals. It was all cooking from scratch or cheap ready made frozen or tinned stuff. I remember faggots being a treat. Wouldn't touch them now.

Well I mean they had to deal with war, polio, economic failure due to nationalisation and excessive taxation, the threat of nuclear war, sexism (the proper kind that kept women out of work), racism (not microagressions but out and proud no black tenants), the aids epedmic and so on. I don't think that you can say that they had it easier. What was easier was buying a house (and they have made us harder for younger generations with their nimbyism and the whole holding onto your house despite going into a nursing home thing which is more of a problem than the who had it worse competition IMO). But they didn't 'have it easier'. Each generation faces its own problems.

Everyone does get very defensive - I’m simply stating that in a fairly large cross section that makes up my wider family and their friends the vast majority did very well for themselves, went to university (including my mother who failed her 11+ but still became a teacher) and have become increasingly wealthy.
I didn’t say I’m not pleased for them - I’m just stating facts that they all grew up in lower working class households, undoubtedly struggled to start with but it was easier for them to ‘move up’ in the world than it is for my generation or our children’s to come.
Obviously there are always people who struggle more or less but the people I’m talking about are very ordinary people.

Also there were times went it really looked like nuclear war was going to happen. Some people were really frightened by it.

I do think though there was less of a public mood of everyone for themselves. That came with thatcher and has had a negative impact.

Yes we had nights out - to the pictures or the pub, or even a nightclub when we were single and didn't have a mortgage or kids to worry about. Why do people have stag/hen weekends with activities, big weddings that cost about £1000 for guests to attend, spa weekends, professional beauty treatments, when these things used to be practically unknown of, or only for wealthy people? Is it because there's more disposable wealth around?

clyd Because very very few working class people then went to university. It was the exception.

I think you also forget interest rates in the 80/90's were horrific. I look at my parents now and think I'm glad you have money to go on holiday 3/4 times a year. Do you know why they can do this cos they both worked full time and didn't not spend on crap which is what my generation does.

They went without holidays for years, my dad was unemployed for 2 years and they struggled.

My generation expect everything on a plate. Well no, life doesn't work that way. Me and my partner work hard and have 2 children and own a 4 bed semi but like I said we have worked hard and gone without.

We are 'up north' btw.

In the unlikely case no one else has pointed this out, OP's stepdad's £12000 wage in 1980 is equivalent to between £48,000 and £53,000 now so he was/would be a well above-average earner and therefore could get a decent mortgage (probably now at higher multiples but lower interest rates than in 1980) to cover a house in many parts of the country.

naked - I think it's quite linked to the point of the thread. People are arguing that low income workers CHOOSE to be on low incomes. I'm trying to find out why they think that and why they think anyone would choose to a lowly job.
The only explanation I have really is that a lot of mumsnetters are mothers and they know of mothers who've voluntarily done lower paid jobs to get family friendly hours. That's not the case for most low paid workers.

Also if you were working class and failed your 11 plus, there was no way to get to university without financial support from parents i.e. paying for private school or to sit A Levels externally, or to do them once you completed school. Secondary Moderns did not offer the opportunity to follow an academic course.

clyd very very few of my parents cohort went to university. My parents are very smart people but they were simply not in a position to go nor was it expected. Maybe 2-3 people from their entire school went.

clyd it's not a matter of being defensive. I think it may be partly because of location. Obviously house prices vary a lot around the country, and also rise at different rates, even in the same town, which has fueled a lot of people's wealth. That is partly down to luck.

I think it's interesting. My parents needed no help to buy their properties, but despite a degree and a husband who has a well paying job we needed their help to buy anything bigger than a shoebox. And I am fairly sure millennials are generally expected to be the first generation in a while who will end up cash poorer than their parents.

Thing is though, life isn't about money really. You can't take it with you, and it doesn't make you happy (although it does give you choices). I have two beautiful kids, a brilliant husband, access to a health service that has been able to save my life twice and yes I could bitch that I pay more for my kids shoes than I do on mine and the worlds gone fucking barmy, but you know what OP? Life is too fucking short. If you've got somewhere warm and dry to call home, a brilliant partner, fab kids and food in your bellies and clothes on your back then don't worry about the rest. You'll find a way to achieve these things in time. But need and want are two very different things.

Every generation has different struggles. You may as well just accept it and get on with it

I went to a large school but only a small number of kids even stayed on.

Gwen some people might choose a lower income job because it's their vocation, or perhaps they want to be self employed or do something creative or just something they enjoy.

So many things getting banded around as facts which don’t take into account people’s actual experience. I’m simply saying that yes, my mum did fail her 11+ and still went to university, no financial help from her working class family, her brother also went. My parents lived in poor housing and struggled - my point is that they were able to rise out it quicker and more easily than future generations will.
I’m not speaking for myself particularly as my husband and I, we own our own family home and have good careers...I worry for our children though as the gulf is only growing wider.

So did she go to a Secondary Modern? Genuinely interested in how she managed to get the qualifications needed?

I have no idea - all I know is she went to teacher training college, became a home economics teacher and eventually head of department.
My dad was practically sold into the merchant navy at age 15 due to the poverty of his parents (they were paid monthly until he was 18). He struggled greatly but eventually earned a degree, a masters and became a captain.
I’m rightly proud of both of them but my point is that social mobility was easier then. Government studies predict future generations are the first to be poorer than their parents.

A lot of the older generation of teachers didn't go to university - they went to teacher training college and got a teaching certificate. Also, home economics might not have the same requirements as subjects that were considered more 'academic'.

"Gwen some people might choose a lower income job because it's their vocation, or perhaps they want to be self employed or do something creative or just something they enjoy."

The lowest paid jobs don't really fall into any of those though. Artist possibly, but creative jobs pay OK. Might be less money than some other jobs, but probably not very low.
And not many people have admin as a vocation in the sense you mean.

Absolutely. Even more a case in point that access to good careers and social mobility was perhaps that bit easier for the previous generation. So many people with degrees etc now but much harder to secure long term employment.

clyd your Mum is not a 'generation'. Because she was able to rise out of poverty quickly doesn't mean that everyone else of her age could. Nor does it mean that people of this generation won't.
My son is 29, left school at 16 and now earns twice the national average, got on the housing ladder 4 years ago, and now lives in a £450,000 house, with his wife and children, have 2 holidays every year, brand new car, etc etc, all in the South east. See I could draw conclusions from that, but I won't , because I understand that everyone is different. My son and his wife aren't 'a generation', any more than your parents and their friends were.

Yes home economics makes more sense as she would have studied that at a secondary modern.

Of course they won't admit they had an easier time as they didn't. 10% deposits were still called for, mortgages were based on only one wage even though both worked. Wages were pathetic, living costs were high e.g. food, clothing. Foreign holidays were unheard of for working folk far too expensive. To have a car it was like saving another house deposit to get one. Not everyone owned their house as they knew they could never afford to. Peep lived with parents until marriage ( remember what that is) or moved away for work. On marriage one property met the needs of two people whilst modern life seems to require people to need a property each almost as soon as they leave school hence there is a much greater demand. Supply and demand that's all it is, It's nothing to do with which generation had it easier as the older ones did not have it easy.